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Asking permission

charlessmith22

My girlfriend is from a traditional(wording it kindly) Irish background. Her parents would have expected me to ask for their daughters hand in marriage. I find the whole idea uncomfortable and disrespectful to my partners autonomy so I opted against it. She said yes (woop) but her parents are making life very difficult for us since. It's beyond childish and the fact they're making this about them instead of being happy for their daughter speaks volumes.

We're thinking of telling them to either support us or don't bother coming but not sure if that adding feul to a fire that's already blazing?

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[Deleted User]

you should have gone through the motions & asked them. To show them that you think it’s a load of crap, you could have done the asking while dressed in Y-fronts & nothing else.

Raichų

I’m going to guess your Mrs is a traveller?

To be honest OP I get your point and all but at the same time I’m looking at it from their point of view it is very disrespectful.

I think instead of trying to be “right” to make life easier for all involved, just give them a shout and say look I am sorry you feel hurt but I just don’t believe in asking for permission etc etc but I do understand how you feel on the matter hope we can move on from this etc.

you don’t even need to apologise but these are your future in laws so I don’t get why you’d burn the bridge.

Trust me, if/when you guys have kids etc having her parents support will be big and having them on your side will be good for you too. I couldn’t imagine having my Mrs parents dislike me. It would make life very awkward I say.

Raichų

I am not suggesting you and your partner have anything to apologise for either by the way, I’m just saying if it means they lay off and cop on then so be it.

magicbastarder

I'd agree with openly talking to them about it but my concern would be if they're like this on something inconsequential, there's going to be ructions on actual important stuff like - as above - their support if kids enter the frame.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058402779/asking-permission

How are they making life very difficult? And is it both parents, or just the mother? They will be paying for the wedding being a traditional family. Does your girlfriend want a traditional Big Wedding?

kabakuyu

Knowing the background that your future Mrs came from you could have come up with some solution to ask for her hand and keep everyone happy,sounds like you wanted to cause a rift.

Hannibal_Smith

Her parents had expectations. You decided against them. Any idea what your fiance wanted?

Mo Ghile Mear

To be honest I thought that kind of thing was gone out years ago. I'm married 47 years and my husband didn't ask permission, not did my son in law when it came around to our daughter. I can't remember any of my friends in my day, nor my daughter's friends in recent years having to "get permission". And we're a fairly traditional farming family in rural Ireland. It sounds like something out of a Maeve Binchy novel at this stage.

I'd be inclined to say.. start as you mean to go on and don't be intimidated by their attitude. If your fiance is ok about it all I wouldn't let it bother you.

charlessmith22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123267769#Comment_123267769

Ha no just a religious family from the country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123267812#Comment_123267812

They omitted her from a family event recently that she only found out from her cousin and were apparently talking about how I've brainwashed her. Last time we were down there her dad basically gave me cold shoulder the entire time, as I said childish stuff.

And we're well able to pay for it ourselves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123267998#Comment_123267998

To be honest we never talked about it and I didn't want the ruin the surprise of the engagement by asking does she want me to ask her dad to relinquish his control on her. But she's happy I didn't.

kabakuyu

SSounds Like a battle of wills between you and the auld fella,she should tell both of ye to cop on.

Minier81

Personally I woud not have been impressed with my husband if he'd asked my dad before asking me. I find it a bizarre tradition. Other than that we had a mostly tradition wedding. Main thing is your wife to be is happy. Try to ignore the behaviour and hopefully your parents in law to be will cop themselves on in time.

Edit to add I have a brilliant and close relationship with my folks, as does my husband.

Jim_Hodge

What is the age difference between you?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123268419#Comment_123268419

ah, the old 'one of you is as bad as the other' cop out.

i learned after the fact that my father in law would have appreciated if i'd have approached him first. he can go and swing on that front. which my wife also agrees with. i didn't marry him.

French Toast

Myself and the OH come from traditional families. I ran it by her old pair before I dropped the knee, I know they appreciated it big time. Always got on well with them and we were together a good while by then so it was no surprise.

893bet

I would suggest a 1-1 with her parents, with out your wife to be.

Be as nice as can can be, I mean the nicest of nice. And don’t mean to put it on. Genuinely try. Family is important. The only thing that matters.

I would outline that “you worship her, and will take care of her, and want the best for her, and she wants their blessing etc”.

I would also record the conversation on your phone just to have it, in case the story changes or it goes badly. Just to have it recorded as it sound like they are gonna be a challenge.

You are marrying the family aswell don’t forget.

JupiterKid

Mod:-

Thread is more suited to the Personal Issues forum, OP. You will receive much better advice there.

Moving over.

Rubberchikken

IIt's a lot easier all round if everyone gets on. Op do you really want to have every visit be filled with cold shoulders and uncomfortable silences.

Their 'Traditional' attitude is a pain in this day and age but you and your fiancées 'unwillingness ' to see their side is a pain too.

Try to reach some compromise. Be the bigger man. Falling out with family is crap.

And good luck.

charlessmith22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123268838#Comment_123268838

I'm very reluctant to appease this man as we've done absolutely nothing wrong and he's thrown his toys out of the pram and excluded her as some sort of weird tactic when he perceived he was losing control.

He's not the nicest man. He's cheated on his wife several times and physically abused her too in the past as well as his sons. We've tried to help her mam and offered her a safe place up at our home if needed but she's well and truly institutionalised there and sings to his tune most of the time, it's pretty sad to see tbh.

He can be very charming when he wants to be, having heard the stories i was shocked when I first met him and couldn't put the person i was seeing to those actions. But with time I'm now seeing his "house devil street angel" character for what it is.

My partner has plenty of great friends up in Dublin thankfully that she sees more as family and my own family/friends are very supportive.

Hannibal_Smith

Thread has been moved to Personal Issues, which is a heavily moderated forum.

When posting in PI posters are asked to offer constructive advice in a civil manner to an OP and warnings can be issued for any posts in breach of this.

If you haven't posted in PI before the Charter can be found here, please read before posting. Thread has been cleaned up to suit the forum.

Thanks

Hannibal_Smith

He's cheated on his wife several times and physically abused her too in the past as well as his sons.

He's not really someone I'd want to appease about anything tbh.

We're thinking of telling them to either support us or don't bother coming but not sure if that adding feul to a fire that's already blazing?

I wouldn't issue an ultimatum, you have to know it would of course add fuel to the fire. You don't need his support for anything really. When is the wedding ? See how things work out between now and then, there's no rush to be reacting to the father's behaviour now. See how your fiancee feels when tempers have calmed. She may very well want to invite them and leave it up to them if they show. It all sounds very childish of him over something very small.

Avatar in the Post

Rookie mistake, OP. That’s the point where you discuss the dowry.

Seriously, as long as your wife to be is happy, that’s all that matters.

And, I’d have a difficulty placating such a ‘man’ myself.

Congrats, btw!

afkasurfjunkie

He’s no man, by the sound of him. Don’t you dare appease him. You seem like a good person and your fiancée seems happy. He’s probably more threatened by that than anything else.

charlessmith22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269085#Comment_123269085

No we don't need anything from him personally. Her younger brother is still living in the house and we'd love to invite him but it would be awkward for him to go against his father on this. He's also got a physical condition that renders him fairly weak and we'd fear he may become vulnerable to his father's anger on this issue if he was to attend without his parents.

His behaviour is weirdly secretive from the wider family and community in general(he has a successful local business) and i think he fears this being exposed now so has sort of got in there first by saying she's been brainwashed and God knows what else.

My girlfriend pretty much hates him but main concern is for her mother and brother still living with him.

JoChervil

OP, one thing is respecting a tradition and another one is respecting a man himself. A lot of people don't believe in God yet, celebrate Easter or Christmas. You can find certain things silly yet follow up to get on with others smoothly.

If I were you, I would ask your girlfriend first and THEN ask their parents just out of tradition, if it was important to them. If they said no, so then you could have gone with all guns blazing. You missed that opportunity.

I think you need to do a proper soul searching, because maybe you WANT to fight with her father. So you take any opportunity, where you can show your upper hand. Maybe it was in this case? Truly strong person pick their fights and avoid unnecessary hustle.

Accept that you are not able to change him and the dynamics in his family. I don't think him giving you a cold shoulder is only because of this asking. You already acted against him trying to help his wife. I think it will always be an underground fight between you both, so maybe it is the best to just limit your interactions to minimum but be open to all other members of family to stay in contact with you.

Hotblack Desiato

Trying to appease a bully is bad enough but now some posters want you to go grovelling to him after the fact. Not a good idea. If he didn't get his nose out of joint over this, it'd be something else - guaranteed.

Make sure you and your fiancee are on the same page if kids will be coming down the line. Do you want baptism, religious schooling, sacraments, etc? Whether you do or you don't, it should be your joint decision. Don't give into in-law pressure on how to raise your own kids. They're your kids not theirs.

I would be very cautious about allowing someone withi a history of violence have any contact at all with kids tbh

charlessmith22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269502#Comment_123269502

You're right, I'd love to fight him, he stands for everything i detest, unfortunately his modus operandi is women, children and the defenseless so he'd likely cower away and take it out on them.

If you can go through life pandering to bullies then so be it, but I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I fawned to this man.

Hannibal_Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269497#Comment_123269497

It getting out in the wider town? I don't think I've ever asked anyone who told me they got engaged whether the father was asked for his blessing. Ever. And I don't know anyone who would ask. 'Getting in there first' with it is massively weird on his part.

You're only just engaged. Enjoy that, the two of you first and when you start planning a wedding then worry about who gets an invite. The dust may have settled by then. Though I doubt it'll be long settled before he kicks off about something else.

If it's just the cold shoulder let him away with himself. It saves you the hassle of having to feign polite conversation.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269557#Comment_123269557

I don't pander anyone. As you said you know his modus operandi, so you know that if you win a battle with him, weak people around him will pay for it. Not him. Try to find a way to help these weak people without making their situation worse. You already admitted that her brother very likely won't come because your open fight.

As they say: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. Don't you think, they if you kept your relation with this man "friendly", you could have better chances to positively influence at least her brother.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269557#Comment_123269557

I’m out. May have been best to keep in the original forum where the above could have been addressed.

charlessmith22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269593#Comment_123269593

His violence towards his family getting out. My partner thinks he's worried if they don't attend and some of her neighbours and wider family do come then people will ask questions. So she thinks that's why he's building a story early to mitigate that. It is nuts though, he's making a mountain out of a molehill for whatever reason, loss of control, paranoia of his character being exposed, I dunno. Had he just been happy for us it wouldn't have been an issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269594#Comment_123269594

I haven't done anything to that end, nor will i because of how delicate the situation is, but would I like to- absolutely. "Keeping friendly" is pandering.