New Thread to continue discussion for General Premier League. Old thread closed.
Sane would fit in perfect at United alright - a questionable attitude off the field by all accounts, a big time Charlie who would command astronomical wages and would be back playing at a midtable German or Spanish team within 18 months.... Make it happen 😉
Yeah, but Sane hasn’t lit the world on fire like he should be doing. I’d say his attitude is questionable.
I'd have loved Sane at Utd - he was the closest player to remind me of Giggs I've seen maybe ever. And that will be why Pep and him didn't see eye to eye. Sane wants to run at people, be free to move into open space etc.. Pep wants him standing in the correct position at all times and wants him to repeat specific moves, link ups etc.. Sane was never a Pep winger
Real Madrid are the highest generating revenue club in the world. A huge chunk of citys recent revenue has been based on recent success(prize money and tv money), that will be considerably down this year. City not being able to sell out their stadium esp in the premier league is a myth which i have discussed extensively here and im pretty sure with you specifically(could be wrong). City fans not posting on boards doesnt equal no fans.
Agree money played a huge part especially at the start with the players you mention i dont doubt it, I dont doubt salary on offer in general is a huge attraction. City have one if the highest wage bills in the world, my point all along is it hasnt needed to be under the table and that along with a top salary(declared) there are many other genuine reasons why city are an attractive proposition. The counter argument from people is its only due to off the record additional payments and this is what I have argued.
Pep and Sane didnt see eye to eye, pep would spend many matches just shouting at him constantly before whipping him off at the first chance. He was class at city though in my opinion and was gutted he left, i felt his ceiling was higher than any other player we had at the time. Not sure where it all went wrong.
My first 3 paragraphs are nonsense? ….right. Not to a lot who aren't City fans or fans of other state run clubs. I'm involved at grassroots football (underage). Why exactly would I want to close my eyes? Pep didn't invent passing out from the back ya know… It's been around in many variations long before Pep came on the scene. I won't deny it's has been more common (espically as the quality of the pitches has impoved so getting the ball on the ground has been much easier at lower levels) but Pep is coach who plays a variation of that style. He is not the inventer of it. So I have no idea what I would be closing my eyes to? I can assure you at grassroots level we are in no ways trying to emulate how Pep's teams play football. Nor anyone we play against. Kids want to have fun when playing football. Putting them in highly structured, possesion based, positional football simply won't work at that level. It would kill their enjoyment of the game. 99.9% of these kids aren't going to be professional and even the 0.01% who might have a shot at it would be useless outside that really specfic system if they were never allowed to play with freedom. If we were copying Pep's style that freedom would have to be removed… Grassroutes football is about allowing people to enjoy football and giving an enviroment that the talented players can learn in and kick on from. It's funny that any team that passes the ball on the ground is now somehow "influenced" by Pep. Pep is obviosuly elite at what he does, he sets teams up to be extremly effective, point collecting machines. But the football is robotic and dull to watch. It kills individualism in favour of a stronger overall team unit. With highly repeatable patterns. It's impressive sure because it is so functional and consistent over 38 games. But it lacks in so many other ways.. and requires an elite level squad (with very specfic attributes) to make it work. See how Pep struggles when he has a keeper who isn't as good with the ball at his feet. Or the difference in his teams when the holding midfielder isn't highly specialised. Actually what we are seeing more at the top level (from teams having success) now is a move away from the highly structured systems and far more relational systems. With players given more freedom to overload certain areas of the pitch and "bunch" players up closer. Players being trusted to move and occupy space with more tactical freedom. Fluminense in brazil are the best side I have seen introduce this style (an extreme version of it) a couple of seasons ago and you can see it's transfering into Europe now. Or at least certain ideas from it. There's some really interesting videos on it on YouTube. Liverpool have played with it this season. PSG showed it to a great level during the week, some of the movment of their midfield and front 3 was a joy to watch. Inter use it, they often drop their midfields deeper than the defenders when building up. It's less about Pep's favoured version with high structure and more about moving players in relation to each other on the pitch. Pep wants his players in specfic areas at specfic times to create highly specfic patterns of play. It is perhaps why he has struggled when he has faced better sides in Europe despite often being touted as being the "best team in Europe". They are predictable. It's hard to stop them when you have a squad like Southampton, but better sides in Europe can keep their structure and counter the space. Hell, Ole did it to great effect a number of times against Pep. Real Madrid have been a relational side for a while and as mentioned before have been unbelievable in Europe over the last few years. Carlo has always been a manager who looks to give his players freedom inside his tactics and he wins in Europe… A lot! It'll be interetsing to see if Pep changes with it. Will he make changes in the summer to adjust as his style of football looks like it might be becoming less effective. And if he does will he then become the new "inventor" of the next stylistic era for many 🤣
No, not safe to book / assume that it'll be a Saturday game. The Europa league Semi is on the 8th. If Utd are involved in that then they will play the Sunday. Even if they get knocked out it'll be down to TV https://www.premierleague.com/news/4039904 You are looking at the TV being announced around March 24th-28th If Utd make it through tonight then you are looking at a Sunday game either way I'd say to be safe or maybe Monday night
24 March - 28 March.
I booked flights for the Manchester Derby for €76 return and just made the assumption it would be on the Sunday. Same flights now are €400. I would say wait for confirmation though. If you follow the PL account on Twitter and turn on notifications on your phone, you can get alerted to it when the dates are set and try get in ahead of others.
Won't be confirmed til around March 28th, wouldn't take a risk booking now it could go to Sunday if united get into the europa league semi final.
I'm bringing my godchild to a Manchester United game in GW 36. When will the start time be confirmed. At the moment all games are for 3:00 Saturday the 10th.
It will have. A huge impact on the booking or csn I take a chance now and book late flights back Saturday?
people have been wondering where the city fans are in general….them being the highest revenue generating club in the world and who can’t sell their ground out. I do however kinda agree that few of City’s players were really wanted by Real or Barca. Aguero and Rodri are former Athletico players? Maybe they aren’t going to Real or a Basque team?
But go back further, Nasri, Clichy, Toure, Adebayor all left a good Arsenal team to play for City. Why? $$$$ Liverpool hammered Madrid 4-0 a few months before Xabi left to go to them. Liverpool were going somewhere. They lost the league with almost record, if not close to one, points total for a runner up. The Sane one to Bayern is interesting, what has he gone on to do? Germany didn’t take him to a WC, Pep saw his attitude and acted accordingly. Pep doesn’t try to keep people who really want to leave.
The first three paragraphs are just nonsense but whatever.
Because the period of Man Citys domestic dominance and brilliance(if i dont say so myself) has coincided with Barca being skint and Real Madrid dominating Europe with 4 Champions league whilst building a new stadium in a league that has fallen below the premier league in terms of appeal and overall revenue. You know this, you are a clever person and dont need me to point it out. And you know its not odd, just like its not odd that city havent gone after barca or real players with all this under the table cash they can offer (apparently).
And of course im not surprised you “hard disagree”, i mean its a debatable topic thats maybe worth a disagree but a hard disagree like its some sort of mental statement is funny. Youd probably want to close your eyes watching 90percent of football at all levels from kids grassroots right up to the premier league because there all trying to play that way.
We will leave there so but because you added a but in your last line i will too…but some fans bitterness about shortcomings at their own clubs shines through when it comes to City more than any other club and i find Irish United and Liverpool fans(esp barstoolers) to be the worst in this regard. Mind you I would probably feel bitter too so I get it to an extent.
You do give a **** about respect. That's why you are replying, because nobody outside of Man City fans rates anything they have done over the last 15 years. It irks City fans. When this era is over and if the UAE walk away (and they will if it no longer fulfils their interests btw) nobody is going to look back at this City side and talk about them being an incrediblly built side like the PL's other greats sides. They'll talk about the legacy of allowing state run clubs to exist, the negitive impact it had. The financial issues it created throughout the rest of football. The blockers it put down in front of other clubs to compete against. OK to your other point re Real and Barca, so City play the best football that English football has ever seen (hard disagree) but the players who play that football don't peak the interest of the 2 boys in Spain? Is that it? It's a bit odd!! Yeah we'll agree to disagree but I think a lot of City fans can't see the wood for the trees when looking at their club.
Just FYI although FFP was only approved in 2010, it had been formally announced at their summit in 2009, it was one of the key items Platini said they were planning on introducing
So it wouldn't have been known the exact impact or extent of the rules in 2009, but it certainly would have been known that they were on the way at that point
I really thought this would be the last I would post on this but I cant help myself here…. "And they certinatly were not between the years of 2008 and 2016 before Pep" Which players during this period would have got into the Barcelona or Real Madrid team that city had? Silva and Aguero were citys two best players, neither were required by either team in this period. Our other best player was Yaya who Barca sold to us, what do you want me to say here? City players were harder to "poach" here for Barca/Real because we didnt have any they needed and if they were semi interested it would have taken a big fee to sign them? Why is it so hard to understand? "for a lot of players Real Madrid and Barca represent the ulitmate goal in club football….That is unless of course you happen to play for Man City" I dont doubt the former, who has said otherwise? You are essentially saying that players only play for Man City because they pay them a tonne of cash? Thats the only reason? Who are these players turning Barca and Real down? "There is also the slight issue of Man City getting caught out for paying Mancini off the books"…hasnt been proved to date and is on the basis of an allegation of a convicted criminal. Funnily that article claims he was being paid twice in 2009 before FFP was even brought in(approved in 2010 and implemented in 11-12 season). Incredible foresight from City to see into the future and see legislation coming in so avoiding loopholes that didnt even exist at the time….
I dont really give a **** about respect, I(and English football) have seen the best football it has ever seen breaking record after record, for a purist who loves football and watching 11 v 11 on a saturday thats good enough for me. Annoyed at the owners? No chance. Look up Franny Lee or Peter Swales if you want to see owners I would be annoyed at.
Anyway lets leave it at that and agree to disagree here.
(probably also worth adding that Pep's brother just so happened to be brought into the City Group's Girona purchase, leaving him with a tasty 16% of the club - which all just so happened to take place in and around the time of Pep signing for City)
I listed a nice collection of players across multiple PL clubs who have seen players poached by Real/ Barca. It is spread out over around 25 years. It shows a consistent history of players wanting to move to Real / Barca. It shows evidence of the pull those clubs have had traditionally over PL clubs. They left for better teams sure, but in case it needs to be made clear here; Real Madrid and Barcelona have been better than Man City for most of that time as well save the odd season. City have been domintant domistically but completly lacking in europe for all that success. Real Madrid have won the CL 4 times in the time Pep has been at City to City's 1 win. Don't try and spin this that City are at the level of Real Madrid, they are not! And they certinatly were not between the years of 2008 and 2016 before Pep. Let's call a spade a spade here, for a lot of players Real Madrid and Barca represent the ulitmate goal in club football. That is unless of course you happen to play for Man City… There is also the slight issue of Man City getting caught out for paying Mancini off the books https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/08/manchester-city-roberto-mancini-abu-dhabi-money-second-contract-sheikh-mansour If you want to say this is the only time City have done this, fair enough. Until there is further evidance of players being paid in the same way I suppose there's no way to convice you of the possibility. However, you can't then be surpised when people outside the club don't think it is very likely this was the only time they have done it.. because it is incredibly unlikely. It's not rival fans you need to be annoyed at, it's the owers of your football club. Their shady dealing have brought you all the success but due to the way they have brought you that success nobody outside the club is ever going to respect it. Nobody respects Lance Armstrong for winning 7 tour de Frances either
Well lloyd reckons City players dont get linked with transfers away and thats his smoking gun yet you have proved otherwise with the case of Bernardo Silva so thanks for backing up my point. Transfer Saga every year with him the last few years.
Your point is different but I will answer it anyway. No he hasnt signed a contract every time it happened. He signed for us in 2017 and then in 2019 extended his deal(before he was linked with moves away). Around the time of the pandemic he got a new gf(eventually his wife) who didnt like manchester and wanted to move away hence the links after this time. He was a crucial player for city so they put a big price tag on him which no one would pay and he didnt kick up enough of a fuss(probably because city were one of, if not the best team in the world during this period so why would he?). Start of last season(23/24) he signed a new contract with a low release clause(50m) that kicked in last summer(24) to give him his freedom of choice with his next club. I expected him to go last summer(24) to be honest but he didnt, probably because the two clubs he was linked with Barca(they didnt have the money and/or prioritised Olmo plus having seen what happened gundogan maybe he didnt fancy it? Who knows) and PSG(they changed strategy last summer on young hungry players so he wouldnt fit in). Its not really that much of a head scratcher. People are failing to realise that city in the last few years dont need to pay additional under the table, they already pay top wages that are declared and they are an extremely attractive team to play for esp with Pep in charge. Players want to play for them, its not just money that attracts them. It was at the start absolutely but they really dont need to do it anymore esp considering where most of their signings come from(usually tier 2 clubs and mostly all potential with exception of maybe Haaland).
I only dip in and out, its relentless in here and I only like to defend the really stupid comments. It would be a full time job otherwise. And people wonder why there are no City fans on boards? This is exactly why. Oh and of course because we have no fans in Ireland.
Who and what are you actually debating here?
Did Dortmund receive 60m for Haaland? Yes unquestionably. Did Man City have to pay substantially more than this to his agent(s), as a signing on fee directly to Haaland and topped up in salary? Yes unquestionably.
Does this happen with every single transfer that is either free or the players release clause is less than his market value? Yes unquestionably.
Whats the problem? Who are these people saying otherwise?
Countless examples of this happening with lots of other players and it doesnt raise an eyebrow but this particular one seems to trigger people. For the record even if it had of been a world record transfer fee and record salaries it would still be considered a succesful transfer.
Barcelona at peak Barcelona when they were attractive and had lots of money. Come on you are being facetious now. My point which you clearly know is that the big players that didnt move(silvas, Agueros etc) where at a time when both Madrid and Barcelona had superior players in their positions. Its simple and you know this.
UNBELIEVABLE value… literally
My favourite is when they start talking about the amazing business of getting Haaland for €60m
A lot of head in the sand stuff there
What about Bernardo Silva being linked with moves to the contingent every other summer for years, and signing a new contract every time it happened?
He even publicly talked about leaving a few times . There was links to PSG and Barcelona and Saudi Arabia yet mysteriously signed a new contract extension that summer. Wasn't there talk of a Barca release clause too, but then they couldn't afford it so the move broke down?
I'd assume all those contract extensions have been on increased terms too. They might not have been increased terms on Man City books though. Maybe he coincidentally got a new advertising contract with some random Dubai shell company at the same time. Maybe his father got a handy remote working consultancy gig at the same time, by coincidence? Maybe he just loves rainy Manchester and so signed those new deals. Maybe he loves rainy Manchester so much that he is again rumoured to be leaving the club this summer.
Eric Garcia and Brahim Diaz were Barcelona and Real Madrid standard, so any player equal or better than them for City would be the same.
And neither of those were near among City's best 5 players. Even a washed up Gundogan was Barcelona standard.
You are consistent in your defence of City, I'll give you that.
Nothing to see here, you are all paranoid etc.
You have just listed a load of players who left the prem for Barca/Real and in nearly all cases they left to play for better teams. Half the teams and clubs the players left were going nowhere so of course they were going to leave(Bale, Modric, Suarez, Coutinho, Alonso).
"Crucially, No City player leaving at their peak. No star name." Not true Leroy Sane did. He was brilliant at City but wanted to go back to Germany so left. You could prob add Jerome Boateng/Ferran Torres in here too in the sense that they wanted to leave and go back to a "big" club and were left to it(even if they werent world beaters).
The only players that really fall into the bracket of ones you would have thought were Barca or Real standard are KDB, Silva and Aguero. I have already explained reasonable logic as to why they wouldnt have left, what other players fall into this bracket?
"Maybe there is nothing in it." is the correct answer here. Lloyd thinks this is the single biggest sign of cheating. It is not. He claims city players never get linked with these clubs, again not true happened all the time. He thinks the only reason any player plays for city is because they get paid under the table more than is reported. Every single top players only reason for playing for city is because of this. Its not unreasonable to think that these players didnt leave because they were already playing for one of the best teams in the world competing for every trophy season after season under one of the best coaches of all time in the best league in the world?
Anyway I have made my point so am stepping out.
Yeah, there was friction between the two alright. But without Real / Barca as a destination and/or Real being able to turn Beck's head, he might have stayed on. They may have had to work through their differences. The point was that Real came in for the player, a high-profile star player and once that happened, Utd lost the player. The pull of Real / Barca was there.
The only one on that list I'd argue would've liked to stay was Beckham but wasn't it the case that Fergie wanted rid of him and all the attention/drama that went with him at the time?
That's not how football agents work. They would point to that as the going rate for a star player at a top 6 PL level club. Aguero would have to have had the worst football agent in the world to accept 150k less per week when a goalkeeper across town was on 350k Plenty of teams in world football would have paid Aguero more than 300k per week
Man United paying outrageous wages to some of their best players (goalkeeper who won POTY 4 out of 5 years btw) during a period of mismanagement under Ed Woodward probably shouldn’t be the standard by which others are measured.
