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Water Charges - here we go again!

_Kaiser_

Article in the Indo this morning :

Households could face charges for excessive water use this year – eight years after legislation was passed to allow for the move.
Introducing the charges is a “high-level priority” for the Department of Housing which says work on finalising the arrangements will be completed “soon”.
The charges, expected to be capped at €500 per year, will apply to homes using abnormally large amounts of water.
They are aimed primarily at householders who fail to fix leaks on their property or refuse to address other preventable causes of excessive water use.
Every home would have a free allowance of water that Uisce Éireann (formerly Irish Water) says is well above the average annual domestic usage

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water-charges-are-on-the-way-back-as-wastage-targeted/a1649702241.html

This is exactly the same thing that had tens of thousands of people out on the streets just over a decade ago and even more refusing to engage at all with significant political fallout as a result.

The article even mentions the same points about it being aimed at fixing leaks, preventing excessive usage, allowances well above average usage, compliance with EU regulations, not a revenue raising measure etc etc that was tried in 2014. It's as if they've just dusted off the press releases from back then word for word!

So, will this renewed attempt (with apparently exactly the same approach) fare any better? Are people going to accept it this time?

Somehow I don't see it going down well!

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prunudo

will be interesting to see how people react this time around. IIrish people seem to have lost their desire to protest or show support for causes that impact us here at home.

Oscar_Madison

There won’t be much protests - simply because there’s too many people without houses so no water rates to pay 🤪

Boggles

They are aimed primarily at householders who fail to fix leaks on their property or refuse to address other preventable causes of excessive water use

Whilst the 1st part of that sentence is quite sensible the other part is pretty open ended.

beachhead

Won't be any new protests if charges are going to be aimed at a group of high usage households and there probably won't any sympathy for them.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058402061/water-charges-here-we-go-again

Ireland - the country where wealthy people filling their hot tubs and watering their gardens with free potable drinking water is seen as a basic human right. The country where people appear to believe rain water forms itself into pipes, filters itself, tests itself for purity and delivers itself to taps in every house without any cost whatsoever but will whine incessantly once a pumping station is down for 20minutes.

There should be a generous allowance of water for every household to cover drinking, cooking, washing, cleaning requirements that is far in excess of normal average usage, but everything above that should carry a charge.

BrianD3

A different country than it was in 2014, the Troika had just left and GDP/GDP per capita was much lower then. Even with the various crises and cost of living in the country, there are plenty of well paid people consuming, spending and snorting like drunken sailors while abusing "free" public services. The boom is getting boomier and people have just voted FFG back into government . So now would seem to be as good a time as any to revisit water charges.

DellyBelly

"There should be a generous allowance of water for every household to cover drinking, cooking, washing, cleaning requirements that is far in excess of normal average usage, but everything above that should carry a charge."

Agree completely with this sentence

Drummerboy2

They are planning to divert water from the Shannon, which is facing opposition, and need to be seen to take action against people who refuse to get leaks on the property fixed. They are prepared to pay to fix the leak if its in your garden but some people would rather leave the leak there rather than disturb their lawn.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253082#Comment_123253082

The shannon diversion is absolutely batshit, they refuse to answer questions about environment ecosystem etc etc outside of simply saying "yeah but we need this". And when the public pipes ridiculous leak situation is brought up they say it will take too long and too much to fix that but pissing away the money it would take to build and the water it would remove from the shannon is fine apparently.

prunudo

We can't grow the country without investing in infrastructure. If that means massive projects like diverting the Shannon, (or the like of Metrolink and energy generation etc ), then that is an expensive pill we have to swallow.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058402061/water-charges-here-we-go-again

It's the exact opposite of what people protested against.

Back then everyone paid a certain amount and after that you weren't charged. It meant that it disproportionately affected people who has less money. If you had a huge house and a huge garden that you watered, you never had to pay for the excess. Your payments were essentially capped.

This is the opposite. It's free for everyone but people who are excessive users pay.

That's the way it should have been the first time round. By giving everyone a certain amount for free, it would encourage people to conserve. And the people who go nuts watering their gardens would have to pay.

olearydc

Can see all points

But once they get something in place...its half the battle won

They would start with the high usage folks..then slowly they reduce the free allowance over time..bit by bit...after a while, everyone is paying like they wanted from the start

Then they can sell up

Private company would come in and clean up... literally

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253082#Comment_123253082

which is facing opposition

This never made any sense to me. Why? What's the issue with using water from one part of the country in a different part? What's all the panic about? Do people think that the river is going to dry up because part of it is deserted? Do they not realise that the Shannon pumps about 7,350 cubic ft per second into the Atlantic. Per second. In the 5 minutes it's taken me to look this up and type it out, that's about 71 million litres of water. 45 minutes of that and you have Dublin's entire volume of drinking water sorted.

Any diversion is expected to reduce that flow down to 7,200 cubic ft. The difference will literally, be negligible. I don't understand the furore over it, is it because it's 'our water' and 'they don't want them there up in Dublin drinking our water'? What sort of small-minded, parochial, inferiority complex bullshit is that?

This new proposal is more about a fine for excessive wastage than a charge for usage, don't think there will be the same opposition this time around.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253177#Comment_123253177

Privatisation is the end game. Wealthy global funds eyeing up public infrastructure with the end user paying as the goal.

[Deleted User]

All this will be really used for is another way to gouge a few euro out of people. it'll be like anything else. We will see very little investment of this money in water infrastructure.

I'm for it in theory but I have my doubts. Also will local authority residents be liable for this too?

Drummerboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253192#Comment_123253192

Its a fact that the Greater Dublin Area has reached capacity. One of the main culprits are the Data Centres. If we have a hot summer, you can bet there will be rationing of water. If there is an issue at one of the main resevoirs, you can bet there will also be rationing. The current situation is preventing development in the region.

ELM327

Given that the cost of water was subsumed into motor taxation, I can assume therefore there will be a corresponding reduction in motor tax if this is brought in?

(Also, I have no stake in this game, we have a well)

n.d.os

It makes sense to cap household usage if it reaches unreasonable levels. However, similar to electricity and the TV license, there will eventually be no justification for the extraordinary amounts of money people end up paying, and the costs will spiral out of control. That's exactly why people will protest it.

We have a shared well but the council won't take over our estate until someone magically connects us to the mains. You couldn't make it up.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253071#Comment_123253071

It's amazing they didn't think of this argument the first time around, given that

We are all paying for water indirectly already
Because we are paying indirectly the low/medium usage are effectively subsidising the people who have swimming pools and they like

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253243#Comment_123253243

This is such an incredibly silly argument. Tax is all one pot and some kind of allocation decision made 30 years ago is utterly irrelevant today.

gmisk

This is on RTE.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0311/1501396-water-conservation-charges/

Not sure how they would measure it for most people, I don't think the install of meters got too far?

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253374#Comment_123253374

Looks like they got to about 880k but there's still 500k without so wouldn't really be a fair measurement to police people on when that many would be getting away with no monitoring whatsoever.

Get Real

I don't see an issue tbh if people are only charged once they exceed a figure that's close to twice the annual average household usage?

Could be said of course that that will change over time and the allowance will be reduced.

But..I'm not sure. Any household exceeding almost double average usage will either 1) become way more aware and reduce usage or 2) are using it in a manner that they can afford to pay a few quid for their excessive usage, capped at 250.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253207#Comment_123253207

Makes perfect sense to me. I'll invest in those wonderful "wealthy global funds" and so, I expect, will my pension provider.

Furthermore, if I have to pay for my water, then I'll do my best to pay as little as possible which means doing my best not to waste water.

And surely by now even the loudest of the half-witted "they're not going to steal our Shannon water" brigade know that the proposal is to harvest and store excess (i.e. flood) water from the Shannon during the rainy season, which, these days, appears to extend from January to December every year.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253321#Comment_123253321

Should we therefore begin an exercise to double or triple existing taxes? Tax when you earn, and then tax when you receive the funds for instance?

I'd expect a more rationalized argument than 'incredibly silly', to be fair. 'Tax is all one pot' is not a valid argument for a double or triple tax grab.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253230#Comment_123253230

I've tried to reply to this post twice now but Boards keeps messing it up. If my post seems a little tetchy, I assure you it's aimed at the site, not you.

The previous poster said there's opposition to diverting water. I asked why….it looks like (correct me if I'm wrong) you're saying "because every now and then, we get water restrictions", which is a ridiculous argument. If restrictions come in, they will come in across the board. If there's no diversion that takes place, it's not like they'll tell everyone East of Athlone to brush their teeth with rainwater while the rest of the country runs around with super soakers and water balloons. Conversely, its not as if they'll tell everyone in Dublin to keep watering their raised beds while the Wesht have to shower in rain barrels. It doesn't make any sense, and your reasoning doesn't hold any water, if you'll forgive the pun.

The current situation is preventing development in the region.

Not sure what you mean here. What situation, in what region? The lack of water supply in the Greater Dublin Area? Or the threat of water diversion in the Shannon catchment area?

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253243#Comment_123253243

There has been a huge and ongoing reduction in the overall motor tax take, if anything I would expect increases there to plug the gap.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253502#Comment_123253502

Supply in GDA, particularly county dublin, has been at or close to peak for any 'good weather' summers we get for some time. There is a need to improve water supply.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253549#Comment_123253549

Policy failure after policy failure by successive governments does not an emergency make.

(the failure here on motor tax being incentivising the wrong thing)

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253550#Comment_123253550

Its only at peak due to the leaks, if they actually went hard at fixing the absurd amount of wastage in the system we would have more than enough capacity, instead they want to throw good water and money after bad via the shannon scheme.