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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Osbourne will almost certainly be on the bench next week , unless they go 6-2, which is not improbable but I think it will depend on injuries.

    If everyone is fit (Doris & Conan mainly) then 6-2 is very possible.

    Ringrose will be serving a ban so Aki/Henshaw will be the starting centres , Frawley got a knock in the A game and is likely not available as he failed a HIA.

    With a 5-3 bench , Osbourne is the most likely option as he covers multiple positions. if they go 6-2 it will be Murray/Crowley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    I cannot believe how many people are missing this point. If you bring him on early and then Ireland ship an injury, we're finishing the game with 6 backs, probably have to replace the injured back with a forward, and whatever forward they'd planned to take off (so planned to play for say ~60 mins) now has to go the full 80. It's simply too risky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭almostover


    Big relief there especially if Doris is struggling to get back for the France game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,116 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah, you'd like to see Clarkson continue his run of games but they need to look hard at TOT who was one of the better performers yesterday, albeit on the LH side.

    If we're getting minced at the scrum, all the guff about the out-half becomes academic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,339 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    One thing is for certain.

    That irish performance won’t be good enough to beat France if they play anything like they did against Italy. That’s not a bad Italian side by any means.

    Some of the Irish problems were down to the front row, the red card, Osborne getting a first run in Cardiff but if we are being honest the majority of the problems in the game against Wales were down to SP. Our two try’s were scored by JGP’s great work not the OH so it’s not as if his attack is world beating and his defending will be torn apart in the French game.

    It leaves mgt with a big call, do they persist with Prendergast, get him more time, experience and bring his level on another bit but risk him getting exposed and throwing away a GS or do they pick Crowley who has had very limited game time and start him for the crunch game, dent Prendergasts confidence and then have SP on the bench where he can only cover one position.

    It’s a tough call they have to make and one that could come back to bite them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Exactly - easy and consistent access to our half/22 will be much more problematic than an off day at ten. TOT has been brilliant against France in the past, but with all the swapping sides etc will he be the best option? I dunno, but Clarkson got munched by Nicky Smith.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    I think we'll take advantage of it against France as well. My own view is that you need your 10s getting 80 to develop as well. Everyone is constantly screaming for long term plannign and buildign depth for the world cup and then toys are thrown out of the pram when that is actually done. Not saying you in this case but I don't think it's baffling, Crowley played 80 in 3 of the 5 games last year and you want to see how your young 10s stand up in that environment. I would always have been in the camp that said 'fcuk the world cup we need to go all out for the 6 Nations' but I think it's pretty impressive to be on for a slam while tweaking little things to keep an eye on 2027. That said we'll be all out for France so I'd expect to see Crowley on at 10 for the last quarter unless Sam is on fire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Does the Triple Crown not count as a title any more?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I was looking at the Scrum penalties and many of them were very harsh on Ireland.

    The fact that Ridley penalised Porter at the very 1st scrum was telling , it was a 50:50 call at best , No request for adjustment , no warnings etc. That was a decision based on a pre-determined view of the offender and not one based on the facts of that scrum alone.

    There was one on Clarkson where the Welsh prop lost his bind and hit the deck with Clarkson on top and they penalised Clarkson!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,116 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    To be fair, it's tough enough to win. Eight times in the six nations it hasn't been won.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 595 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    We are the current holders of the Six Nations Championship, the Triple Crown, the Millennium trophy, the Centenary Quaich the Admiral Brown Cup and the Lansdowne Cup. Of those I would argue that only the Six Nations Championship is a title and we have not won that this season (at least not yet). But would be interested to hear other views.



  • Posts: 146 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Personally, I think it's lost a lot of relevance and become something that feels like part of the amateur era. There's so rugby played now across many different international and club structures that it's drifted into the noise of all the fake sponsor trophies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    It definitely meant something well into the professional era though. By the end of the amateur era we'd only won it four times.

    We've now won it eight times in the 6N era (the most of any of the nations who can win it - England next on 5), so it's probably lost a lot of its gloss because of that. But it's still a hard trophy to win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    That's frustrating, but Clarkson had painted a clear picture that he wasn't up to it. Things got better when Smith went off and considerably better when Bealham came on, so I don't think it was just about the Ireland scrum as a unit getting penalised harshly. The dark arts, indeed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I'd like to prefix my point here. I do not like complaining about referees.

    Without question the English referees have made up their mind about the Irish (& Leinster) scrum since Porter moved to LH in 2021.

    Carley, Pearce, Dickson and now Ridley are all singing from the book of Barnes.

    It goes without saying that most of us, but also the officials (who have an incredibly hard job), are mostly guessing when it comes to the scrum.

    Nicky Smith is a tricky customer. Clarkson will be the better for that game.

    Cyril Baille is a different ball game.

    The group of officials for the Ire v Fra game:

    Referee: Angus Gardner (RA)

    Assistant Referee 1: Matthew Carley (RFU)

    Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (RFU)

    TMO: Ian Tempest (RFU)

    FPRO: Andrew Jackson (RFU)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Bang On

    But I will never turn my nose up at a Triple Crown. Ever!

    They were great games v Wales and England. Hard fought victories. And a well earned Triple Crown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    So Prendergast's 50/22 played no role in the scoring of the second try?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Agree with you , I'm a referee myself so totally get the pressure and human element to it all. I'm also a former Prop..

    But as I said , going to directly to a penalty at the first scrum without any other action isn't "setting out your stall" or anything like that , it's a pre-determined outcome.

    As another poster said , it's the dark arts - Opposing Props know that certain refs are watching for Porter driving inwards so on Irish ball they let him, by slightly shifting their angle and allowing Porters power to naturally force them inwards.

    If Porter holds back to avoid this he runs the risk of the Tight-head getting the upper hand anyway so he's in trouble either way.

    However , if the referee did not have a pre-determined opinion that "Porter doesn't scrum straight" , they'd be pinging the other guy for folding.

    You see this with other refs when they ping the TH or the TH knows they won't get change so they don't even start doing it..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 595 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    if we lose against France (they are a good team) which means we will probably not win the 6N Cup should we celebrate the triple crown and a successful campaign?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Great insight. Thanks for sharing. I can see 'the bind' Porter is in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭phog


    For scum penalties I think the AR has a huge role in deciding who gets the penalised, once the ref hears Green, Green, Green then the ref will more than likes penalise the team rather than go with what they were seeing. We saw yesterday in the A game Deegan pointing to an English elbow on the ground to get the call, we've seen POM holding up a props elbow so the AR wont go penalising us.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed , the presence of Carley and Ridley as ARs isn't great news sadly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    And Ireland have previous there. See RWC 1/4Final

    Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)

    Assistant Referee 1: Matthew Carley (RFU)

    Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (RFU)

    TMO: Tom Foley (RFU)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,783 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He couldn't tackle. Literally cost us multiple games due to that very fact (remember Leon McDonald steamrolling over the top of him?) Was never in contention with his peers for a spot on the starting 15 for the Lions. I liked ROG, shouted my throat raw cheering for him in red and green, but he was never in the upper echelon of 10s. Volume doesn't equal quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 374 ✭✭letsbefair


    Exclusive: Christophe Ridley has been in camp with England, advising around refereeing matters and officiating.It is bearing fruit. In the two Six Nations victories - both won by a single point - England have conceded fewer penalties than the opposition. from the Telegraph

    Maybe he wanted Ireland to lose ! This is a clear conflict of interest and should not be allowed to do both



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Just nonsense. ROG was not great in defence but is right up there with our greatest OHs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Enjoy the games. Win or no win.

    Because this Irish team are for a massive part a well coached, well selected side who are a tight knit group of proud Irishmen. This shouldn't be taken for granted!

    You will never have to even consider anything other than this:

    They are desperate to win a Triple Crown, a championship and a Grand Slam.

    They put their bodies on the line each and every game. And keep coming back for more!

    They are great ambassadors of the country and the sport.

    Celebrate that!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca




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