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OMC Responsible for apartment pipes?

mjas

Me and my wife brought an apartment 1 year ago (Our first house so learning a lot of things). And due to a recent storm there was some water seeping into the walls causing all sorts of havoc. Which have been repaired, which is great. But we just got a notice that our gas has been shut off when they were inspecting the pipes for leaks since they found some due to corrosion. Not sure when they got corroded, if they were already like that (since the block is old) or the storm did some damage. Now it is not just our apartment, but multiple apartments that have had their gas shut off due to the same reason. Fixing/replacing the pipe was quoted to be a huge amount. And the OMC seems to be refusing to pay that to fix it. We are still trying to understand that part. There is a sinking fund that we assumed would be for these situations or even the block policy.

Was looking for some guidance about who is responsible if the pipes are damaged outside of the apartment. These pipes go to the basement to where the meters are, that is about all we know. And they seem to be shut off from outside the apartment.

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Ray Palmer

The are meant to cover everything up until it enters your property. There could be problems right through the installation but only the pipe to your apartment is your issue. Now depending on the size of the block it could be a direct gas connection to each place with a meter at the connection point. So where is the meter?

mjas

Thanks for the info Ray! The meter is in the basement. I think you are right since every apartment has a separate connection going to the apartment from the meter in the basement.

There seems to be damage before it enters the apartment but can't be 100% sure since they already had it shut off by the time we got a plumber to take a look at where it connects to the boiler. At least the plumber didn't seem to think there was any damage in the apartment pipe itself, considering the boiler is out in the balcony rather than inside the apartment.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155763#Comment_123155763

Yeah it does sound like they have no responsibility for it. Might be worth changing to electricity if the cost is high.

mjas

Gotcha! We were looking at electric and our apartment has like 5 radiators and 2 towel racks in the washrooms. Wouldn't it cause the electric heater to be in overdrive since there are 7 items that require heating?

endofrainbow

Do they all need to be heated at the same time?

mjas

We don't…. but our parents may come in and stay with us soo just accounting for that like don't want the boiler to blow a fuse or something should that happen.

Typically the heating is on a timer, like maybe it'll run for 2 hours, 3 times a day! Most of the rads are manually turned off since we don't use them but…. never know. Would love to know the downside around this before commiting you know!

Calahonda52

OP: you pen

but multiple apartments that have had their gas shut off due to the same reason

If the fault is before the meters then I would expect all

As it would be one supply in?

Citizen Six

Does your insurance cover this kind of thing?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156329#Comment_123156329

It may be one supply in to the building but if there is a corrosion issue between one meter and appartment then it would surely be normal to switch off all internal supplies of gas for safety & precaution reasons

mjas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156355#Comment_123156355

Looking to have a call with them around this. But i'm hesitant since it will cause premiums to go up from what i gather? Soo hesitant to go this route.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156356#Comment_123156356

Yeppp it seems like multiple apartments have their pipes corroded between the meter and the apartment. Not the one supply going to the basement!

The OMC has stated that the reason they won't fix it is something along the lines of gas boilers being phased out and gas lines won't be a thing in the future since you shouldn't be using gas boilers anyways and not necessarily because it isn't part of their area of ownership soo that is adding a bit more to our confusion 😅

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156594#Comment_123156594

Codswallop!! Have they never heard of the plan to move to Hydrogen based heating using the existing gas network? Many of the boilers available now are H2 ready, meaning that if the plan comes to fruition then the gas provider could swap over from natural-gas to H2 and you wouldn't even know! British Gas page for reference:

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/hydrogen-heating.html

Tell them that you specifically sourced a new boiler with H2 compatibility so that you'd be ready for the future.

Additionally, I'd nearly bet that the OMC have a policy where it states that air-conditioning coils are banned from balconies, if so how are they proposing to move to this magical new technology in the absence of a balcony heat exchanger? I know that the obvious answer here is to mount it on the roof, but are they proposing to support having that pipe-work installed at their cost in lieu of repairing the existing gas piping?

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156594#Comment_123156594

That's interesting additional detail on the position of the OMC. While their view long term is correct, their vision is still a long time away. Electric boilers are most likely the solution rather than heat pumps.

Back to the present. The gas pipes from the meter pass through common area before entering individual properties. Anything in the common area, including voids and ducts, is the remit of the OMC. I do not see how they can refuse to address this in the present where the cause of the corrosion is known water ingress from the shell of the building. Again their remit. The block insurance policy should be covering damage from water ingress with a high excess, but nothing for you to pay. Check this with the OMC.

markpb

Unless your contract says otherwise, the pipes are owned by the OMC and they are responsible for any repair work. It sounds like someone on the board of directors doesn’t want the hassle or expense of fixing them and has picked a handy (but invalid) excuse.

It’s time to start being the noisy wheel that gets the oil. Phone the managing agent repeatedly until you get an assurance that the pipes will be fixed. Those guys will usually manage multiple estates so they’re always busy. If you approach this passively, you’ll be put on the long finger. Be a thorn in their side and they’ll be a thorn in the directors side.

As soon as you get a commitment that the work will be done, start looking for progress updates and a completion date.

The trick is to do this firmly but politely. Don’t be overly pushy or rude, don’t give the agent a reason to blacklist you. Understand that it’s probably not them taking the decision to delay or defer repairs but that you have to go through them to get a decision and updates. Don’t be fobbed off by tales of a non-gas future, that’s your decision to make, not the OMCs.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156594#Comment_123156594

Complete and utter bs

I would be issuing legal proceedings for all the distress caused by their inaction etc.

Have you any elderly folk in the block who might freeze to death…etc

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158626#Comment_123158626

I agree that it's a very poor initial response from the OMC but your olution is a bit dramatic and will just delay a satisfactory response. . A graduated and amicable course of action is how to resolve this (something like that proposed above). Litigation should be the last resort.

mjas

Sorry just got another update. This apparently has been a problem happening for a while. And they fixed a few apartments (they were found to be leaking earlier than ours and were fewer in number) but don't want to fix it anymore cause of the reason above about them being phased out and it being too expensive.

We have been trying to be nice and not annoying but it doesn't help that they ignore emails and rarely pick up phone calls. I am glad to understand that we aren't doing anything incorrect expecting the OMC should resolve this.

At the moment we are considering biting the bullet and replacing it with electric boilers (since our boiler already needs a change anyways, might as well get electric instead of a new gas one) and don't trust that it won't happen again after making the fix. This, in our opinion, seems to be the path of least resistance.

Still working out the math with electric boilers. All online sources says you are on the limit with 5 radiators and 2 towel racks and the bills will be double of gas. But… plumber say it won't be anything as bad in an apartment. Trying to find people with more practical experience.

10-10-20

At the moment we are considering biting the bullet and replacing it with electric boilers

Wow…!! I would not capitulate that easily. I'd be escalating that pretty quickly by contacting the directors of the board of management for the block and going from there. Plenty of cases documented on here where that has been done in the past, have a look in the Accom and Property section here for historical issues.

Plus, who says that the apartment's electrical system is capable of this transition?

mjas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162292#Comment_123162292

Talked to them and it seems like wear and tear is not covered under our apartment block policy and isn't with home insurance either since they will only cover what is inside the apartment (was taking a shot). We asked what is the recommendation and they mentioned electric boilers 😓

10-10-20

The corrosion of pipes commonly occurs when water comes into contact with both the copper of pipes and the surrounding concrete. Water shouldn't be present in the areas where pipes are passing through, so any corrosion of the pipes in the common areas of the building is a highly likely to be a secondary symptom of the water intrusion. That's not wear and tear in my book.

I'd be suggesting that you hire a structural auditor between you and have an independent report completed. Then if the corrosion can be linked to the ingress of water I'd firing it right back at the OMC.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163082#Comment_123163082

The block insurance policy is irrelevant to you, it's between the OMC and their insurer. If repair work needs to be done and the insurer won't cover it, the OMC still has to do it. If the roof was damaged in a storm and the insurer didnt cover acts of God, the OMC would still have to fix it - they couldn't just tell you to get an umbrella. Likewise, if your mains water pipe was leaking, the OMC would have to fix that because it forms part of the structure owned by the OMC.

If they want you to move to electric boilers because they don't want to repair the gas pipes, it's up to the OMC to pay for it and install a system that proides the same functionality that you have today. They can't abdicate their responsibiity to repair something owned by the OMC and make it your problem.

TJ_quisitive

Hi mjas,

I'm just wondering if you've been able to make any progress with the OMC? I'm in the same situation as yourself (possibly even the same building by the sounds of things)

tnegun

I'm interested too in how this played out as something very similar is impacting a family member.

mjas

Nope! OMC unfortunately simply said no money to fix the pipes. And that was that. Haven't been a home owner long enough to be a bit more forcefull for these things :( Electric boiler seems to be the easiest solution. Would cause bills to go up. But… at least would help avoid some gas charges (standing charge etc) since we no longer need gas at all.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279866#Comment_123279866

surely its their responsibility to fix it and to go look for the money, increase mgmt fees if needed. They should have a sinking fund.

I’d talk to a solicitor and see about them dropping in a letter. To force them.