Something something Prendergoat
Have at it.
Suggestion for those that can make it happen, can we have an Ireland 10 thread throughout the 6 nations and disallow talk of it in other match threads.....its going to destroy and dominate every discussuion. You'd swear jack crowley was playing 1 on 1 v sam prendergast and not Ireland playing England.
It's all off topic to match threads.
Crowley didn't have near the number of moments on the ball that Prendergast did. Crowley is absolutely a more direct and threatening runner, one of his best traits, and an area I'd say he's probably superior to Sexton even. Prendergast is a better passer, both in mechanical terms and in his playmaking. Having Crowley come on is a great option, he can lift the tempo against a tired team and push things. Conversely, I think Prendergast's skills are well suited to countering a fresh defense. We struggled in the 1st half, in part due to how lethargic our carriers were. Aki was anonymous, and our backrow weren't doing much. If VdF doesn't decide to ignore a mile wide gap in front of the line, we'd have gone in comfortably ahead.
Yet we've seen that that it's not standard for professional players to nail passes like that, far from it. Ringrose made a long skip pass to set Lowe up for JGP's try and it looked like he had to put everything into it to get it there. Prendergast makes those passes look practically effortless, all while hitting the receiver in stride. I've yet to see Crowley do similar, and I suspect it's one of the main things that has put Prendergast ahead of him.
Here, here!
And he has the backing of his coaches. Very important in building his confidence.
And he has established senior internationals all around him. Very important in helping him grow and develop.
They didn’t blast through a tough England squad at all and if the referee wasn’t BOK could easily have lost
I can see merits in both starting/closing. I think the selection on the whole worked out.
I'm thrilled with the result and delighted with the selection 'headache'.
My only slight gripe is Baird at 6. That game just didn't suit his style. BR was in big trouble.
Conan was outstanding off the bench.
v France - 5. McCarthy, 6. Conan / 19. Ryan, 20. Baird.
There is a simple fact as well that Crowley is a better bench option than Sam.
SP can’t play any other position, Crowley can play 10 and if needed can play 12 and 15.
I think it’s possible that if Crowley starts prendergast might not make the bench as someone like Frawley or JOB could be a better option.
Sexton and O'Gara were a lot older than that when they first played for Ireland so there's no way of knowing how they'd react.
Having the more experienced player as the closer to either turn or close out a game is possibly the better call now that you mention it.
So why not judge all of Borthwick comments instead of cherry picking ones that suit the agenda??????
Critical >>>> significant.
The 3rd quarter was critical to the outcome. We went from 5 down to 3 ahead. Conan and sheehan had come on and we started to get gainline success, England were set up to be disruptive as opposed to creative and weren't in a great position to chase the game.
As it is often said at half time, the next score is critical, and the next 4 scores came from Ireland. Turning the momentum of the game on its head including on the scoreboard was critical to the outcome.
As I said a three point lead is not scoreboard pressure. A 10 point lead, more than a penalty goal and up by more than a score is putting pressure on the opposition. This happened in the last quarter. Now Borthwick mightn't have been certain what time the try and conversion to put us up by 10 points was, it was only a couple of minutes into the last quarter but it was the last quarter and I'm pretty sure that's the score he was referring to.
not really impressed by England, strong defence but poor in attack…Anyway, France must be very careful on up and under cause Stewart is taller than Ramos, and if Jalibert plays, he will be targeted by Lawrence… Jalibert is a not a defensive leader…
so based on the comments here, Crowely to start v Scotland and France with SP/Frawley to start v Wales and Italy ?
That should help progress all three players .
He literally said the third quarter was critical. And it was. Conan and sheehan came on, Ireland started to get gainline success, quick front foot ball and turned a 5 point deficit into a 3 point lead and then built from there.
The momentum of the game had changed and England were behind for the first time.
for years we wanted to build real depth, have real impact off the bench and now we are starting to get some of that.People, including on here, often were critical of us not blooding players in meaningful games as playing Japan, Georgia etc in November was pointless. Now we are giving players opportunities in 6n games games v England and it's being picked apart as being wrong because the players being picked don't wear the right colour jersey in the URC for some people's liking.
Lawerence really mullered him on that one alright. Luckily it was 90m from our try line and the centres came in to help him out.
The guy is 21, and yes defence is an issue. I think the quote from Barnes was apt, all SP had to do yesterday was not melt in heat of battle. He didn't do that, it's a big 60mins under his belt.
But yes, like many other here, I think Crowley is the slightly better player currently. Both will get plenty of gametime over the next 6 weeks and on the summer tour. Hard to see either featuring for the Lions, which is a good thing.
I’d be very surprised if it turns out like that.
I think Prendergast will start against Scotland and they’ll decide next steps from there.
I wouldn’t expect Frawley to feature at all tbh.
I was happy to see Baird at 6 because I think we need to find our successor to POM there fairly sharpish. Unfortunately Baird has had a good few cracks at it now and has failed to seize the opportunity every time. He can't expect to be a regular starter at this level if the 'game didn't suit him'. Has to force the game to suit him. Conan back in the driving seat for me after yesterday. Not the best age profile but you have to pick on performance.
Freddy Stewart is an empty jersey. He'll be embarrassed if he plays against the French. Oil tankers turn quicker.
Englands up and unders weren't that much of a pay off. They didn't have the hang time that JGP could get, and this dropped shorter. Hell one of Randalls actually went backwards.
On saying that, I hate the new escorting rules. It encourages lesser teams to kick more as it turns a contest into a flip of a coin. Hate it!! England kicked 1 in every 3 possessions, boring as fcuk.
Personally, I’d absolutely pick Crowley to start next week. But I expect Prendergast to start.
Agree with all this.
Edit: almostovers post above (quote function send to be mullered as well)
Leave Russell and a combo or Smith / Farrell for the lions. Much better for both Crowley and prendergast to get game time as senior leaders on the Georgia Romania tour, than as bystanders on a lions tour (as much as they would disagree)
I’d agree tbh, Syd. The levels of kicking from hand have gone up, even from Ireland. Said it to a friend mid-game, it was like watching a game from 2016 at times.
I don't agree with any change that gives a sucker an even break. The obstruction laws are sufficient in my opinion.
sadly have yet to find a replacement
Dupont will be looking forward to that match-up. He left Williams in his wake easily enough.
With perhaps a few exceptions, which I won’t inflame opinion by naming, we need competition like SP versus Crowley for every other spot on the team. At least that much because careers can be short.
For whatever reason, Itoje looked a lot closer to charging down a box-kick than our guys did.
Well exactly that. He hasn’t seized the chances at 6.
I had questions if he would strike the right balance against the English BR and how he’d manage in the defensive line. This is going to come across as very harsh, but after that performance I don’t think he’s good enough (yet) to play 6 v Eng, Fra, NZ, SA or Aus.
Ireland definitely can find a spot for him in because he can do things no other Irish Lock or BR can. 20. It’s more like his role.
v France It simply MUST be Conan, vdF, Doris.
I’m going to watch the game again (third time!) but I won’t be surprised if he’s dropping back to the bench for the Scottish game. Or worse.
I would prefer to throw Izuchukwu in at 20. v Scotland and if not then definitely 20. v Wales.
I think this selection, and the 2nd row selection - assuming McCarthy is back, tho I've no idea of his injury status? - are the pretty interesting things about selection for next week, and going forward tbh.
I'd 100% agree, it should be Conan starting next week. I'm not at all convinced by Baird's tackling, but then the flip side is you lose something in the lineout.
Following on from that, I thought Ryan was very quiet by his standards, but he's very important for our lineout. And I'm not really convinced by McCarthy at lineout time. So if you started Conan, can you also start McCarthy, knowing Scotland are far more likely to contest our lineout? I'm not sure you can tbh.
Throw in to the mix, I think Beirne is clearly more effective and involved from the 2nd row. I think he has to start there.
A lot could come down the McCarthy's fitness; I don't see us picking Baird or Izzy as a 2nd row. But I like the idea of McCarthy off the bench. And pair him with either Baird or POM for lineout security, and sub them on at the same time.
The amount of discussion about the our 10's is pure mad. Two young talented players which Ireland are blessed to have at the same time. Crowley is slightly ahead at the moment but is has a bit more experience. Perfer to have two good 10's and supporters bring upset with selection rather than when it was Sexton with nobody as a backup
Not sure why you'd think we'd lose something in the lineout with Conan? He's a very good lineout jumper.
