Something something Prendergoat
Have at it.
I don’t really care that they ship Prendergast for the defence. We all know Crowley is a better defender. But his defensive frailties cost us nothing. He had a ropey start and that first conversion was awful. He completely mis hit it. Crowley was solid when he came on. But he didn’t nothing extraordinary to warrant all the posts of how he was so much better than Sam.
They were both 6.5 out of 10.
Boyle isn't good enough to be anywhere near an Irish team. Loughman might be slightly better than Boyle but he's not very good either.
He was completely flat-footed for their try; it's not ageism to point that out. Nor is it only one performance; we'd be completely hamstrung if, touch wood, Porter had to go off early.
You'd be sacrificing something at scrum-time, but gaining something in the loose, Boyle should be in there. It's a shame Loughman got injured.
And my thoughts on SP vs Crowley.
The 10 wasn't the difference between the teams. But there absolutely was a difference between the 10s. Anyone saying otherwise, I just don't remotely agree with. Their respective performances weren't comparable; Crowley was much better.
There are a number of arguments that often come up that are bordering on logical fallacies:
Prendergast had good moments. His pass to Aki was very good (Aki's finish was wonder-try stuff, he had no right to score from there). For me his best moment was ~30 mins, loop play to make ground out wide and worked really hard back on the open side to make the overlap (which VdF ran back towards traffic).
But overall, he had more errors than good moments. Even things he's supposedly better than Crowley at, like his kicking out of hand, were poor; Crowley's was noticeably better.
On top of that, we actively changed how we defend with 10, putting him in the back-field. So for all the criticism of Crowley's missed tackle (he scragged him and Ringrose completed the tackle; it wasn't even that bad a missed tackle), Prendergast was actively being taken out of the line so he didn't have to tackle.
Prendergast is only 21. He has huge potential, shows some lovely passing and is already better than many 10's we've tried over the last number of years or more.
But for me, it should be Crowley starting all day long at the moment.
The ageism thing again. Healy is there because there is nobody better than him as an impact sub. When one arrives that gets close to his level I'm sure he'll be moved on.
One performance doesn't decide it's time for him to go.
I think his point was that England had the lead and losing it created the pressure. Which I suppose is fair enough but kinda smacks of a lack of confidence that they felt it was getting out of their grip. Which as it turned out, it was, but still…
Ireland scored 8 points in the third quarter to lead 13-10. That's hardly scoreboard pressure.
Just after Crowley came on they scored and converted a try to make it a 10 point lead, that's scoreboard pressure.
And to be clear I'm not saying that the try had anything to do with Crowley. I'm just pointing out that your suggestion that SP was on the field for the critical moment is untrue.
And Borthwick is incorrect, the scores that won it for Ireland came in the last quarter.
Some points on that game (outside of SP vs Crowley):
Nobody on that pitch yesterday was anywhere close to 9/10. Irish papers' ratings are complete nonsense and always have been.
From.BBC website. What Borthwick said. 3rd quarter was critical. Crowley came on In the 59th minute.
.......
England head coach Steve Borthwick: "Immense credit to Ireland - they are such an experienced team. It was a tough Test match in that third quarter and I thought they did really well.
"That was the critical period and that allowed them to get scoreboard pressure. I am very proud of how our players attacked the game in the first half and came back at the end to score a few tries to get the bonus point.
"The team, against one of the best attacking sides in the world, have improved defensively
Some coaches insist that you sit at half time.
Something I noticed at half time when they showed the teams in their changing rooms. All of the England players sitting quietly, almost looking exhausted, while in the Ireland changing room there were lots of players moving about and there seemed to be an energy and readiness to get back out on the field.
Every time it’s the same with a few wind up merchants on here to popping in to start off a Crowley-Prendergast narrative which persists for the whole week and quickly descends into a toxic provincial mess which doesn’t do anything for the players involved. You wouldn’t know who won the game by reading through the comments. I think most genuine fans are thankful that we have two good options that will get better with time who compliment each other by being able to change up the game. As a Leinster fan I would have gone the more experienced route and selected Crowley for this game and would have no issue if he gets selected next week as he’s back playing with confidence. I called out the over the top criticism of him at the time of the AI whilst also calling out some of the over the top praise for him after the NZ game. There’s no such thing as a perfect game (although Dupont in the Champions Cup final was close) Both players contributed to a great win yesterday with some lovely moments and also made poor mistakes which on another day could have cost us the game. Great that they get that experience in a winning team and that we won’t be in the position we were for the last 3 World Cups where we didn’t have anyone behind Sexton who had started any big games.
Was lucky to get a ticket for the match and I have to say the atmosphere was fantastic. I've always said you can't manufacture an atmosphere. The game and the stakes make it which is what happened yesterday.
It was such a great second half display (minus the last few minutes). During the first half I was concerned but despite the mistakes I felt we were still playing at a step up over November and all we needed to do was steady the accuracy. This happened and we dominated.
It was a pleasure to be there but one thing is for certain with Irish rugby is if you are feeling good after a performance don't come to the boards rugby discussion as it will ruin your mood with the constant moaning and bickering. Lads waiting like mousetraps to snap on a player that is developing and will improve. SP was not brilliantly but some of the hyperbolic nonsense here is laughable. I for one am happy that we are developing two international class 10s at the same time. For too long we were reliant on Sexton and if he was injured we were screwed.
I'm surprised you are trying to make it sound bad for SP.
I thought you were firmly in his corner?
Quicker point, when Crowley came off vs NZ in Autumn we were winning…
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That's an opinion based on one game. You have nothing to back it up.
Anyway I suppose this is off topic so I'll leave it there.
The Irish Times team ratings.
Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure where they got that 9 for Keenan.
15 Hugo Keenan (Leinster) Rating: 9
14 Mack Hansen (Connacht) Rating: 7
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster) Rating: 9
12 Bundee Aki (Connacht) Rating: 7
11 James Lowe (Leinster) Rating: 8
10 Sam Prendergast (Leinster) Rating: 6
9 Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster) Rating: 9
1 Andrew Porter (Leinster) Rating: 8
2 Rónan Kelleher (Leinster) Rating 8
3 Finlay Bealham (Connacht) Rating: 7
4 James Ryan (Leinster) Rating 6
5 Tadhg Beirne (Munster) Rating: 7
6 Ryan Baird (Leinster) Rating: 6
7 Josh van der Flier (Leinster) Rating: 8
8 Caelan Doris (Leinster, capt) Rating: 7
Some of them looked knackered in the first too. It's why I was never really worried tbh. They went all-in and we stayed in touch and eventually overtook them.
When it was pointed out that Borthwick said jack had a good game, there were more than a few of you replying in the mod of "WTF does he know?" along with some character assassination of an international coach.
So this is your response to any compliment of a non Leinster player. This "can't we all just roll in behind Ireland" is a very thin veneer over some seething hate of the other 3 provinces.
When called out, you revert to "but but Andy makes decisions and he's infallible because he's an international coach" mode. Well Borthwick is also an international coach and took England further that Ireland in the last world cup if I'm not mistaken.
It's time you guys were called out on your hypocrisy. Nothing but a bunch of kids spitting their dummy out of the pram.
I was surprised at how knackered some of the England players looked in the second half. Guys being subbed off looked like they could barely make it to the touch line.
England's defence is completely different to what they tried to do(badly) in the Autumn Internationals. They will defeat Scotland handy enough.
The one that was a knock on intercept when we were on a penalty advantage?
Don't forget that intercept Sam threw, he was lucky the ref was lenient on the call. Slinging long passes is all well and good, but not to the middle of the bloody park.
despite the early English onslaught and ferocity we started to look dangerous in attack at the end of the first half. If it wasn’t for the struggle to finish our opportunities we could have been ahead at half time. This before the English tired and the bench smashed them
21 year old, first six nations start, heavily targeted by England. He passed the test. Crowley was also excellent. Lucky we have them both.
Last time they played England they beat them and they did a number on Australia in the AIs.
Since last year's Six Nations England have played eight times and have only two wins, both over Japan.
Please tell me how you've come to that conclusion?
If Kelleher’s try had stood and we were less wasteful with our entries in their 22 would we still be having this conversation about 10s? We really should have put another 2 tries on them in that first half.
They'll say things they wouldn't say in person, wouldn't worry about them !
