Something something Prendergoat
Have at it.
This. Starting against an England team successfully all-in on causing chaos and disruption is an entirely different challenge to coming on when your team has broken them and are very much on the up.
He does that all the time. For all his size and speed he's not where he needs to be defensively.
Looking back at the tries conceded, Beirne, Healy, Crowley and Henshaw all made poor efforts that cost us. That’s a part of the game that we have to tighten up on as Scotland have plenty of players who can hurt us if they get an easy line break.
Quick point, when prendergast went off we were winning 13-10
Yes I'm talking about online posts.
Isn't it amazing the amount of posters on here saying that its forbidden for them to say that Sam prendergast had a poor half, while saying that Sam prendergast had a poor half.
Self awareness is severely lacking in some.
He could have been hooked before half time if he was worse than he actually was, but he wasn't bad enough to be. He's learning quickly and he will be a very good player this season and for years. So will crowley.
We have 2 excellent out half's who are young which we never had apart from a season or so at end of humphreys career [20 plus years ago] and at the end of o garas career [ 10 plus years ago]
If this is the future of the Ireland 10 debate where everyone slates their least favourite, and its ok to have a favourite btw, as completely useless its going to be a nightmare to read.
I do know about past results thanks. If England can repeat how they played yesterday they are miles ahead of Scotland IMHO.
sorry have to pick you up on your post, Crowley wasn’t the last tackler on the England try scorer, and he was trying to cover open field.
“If” he made 3 times this mistakes ??? Seriously !
Fact: SP got ran over in defence , made at least 3 kick too long , one of which led to England's first try.
“However, Jack is a better tackler”, what about Jacks line speed and attacking threat, play variation, kick game, etc etc yesterday ?
“Over the course of the season , SP is a better penalty kicker “ . Based on what ? It’s his first senior season and Not yesterday ,when it mattered in a tight first 60 mins playing for Ireland in the 6N , not his club.
Is it verboten on here to have the opinion that SP had a torrid first 30 mins and would have been hooked before halftime if England had converted more of their chances.
Which of Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand, France and Scotland are you leaving out to put England in the top five? You do know they lost to Australia at home in the AIs?
I’m afraid you’re in for a few very disappointing years of watching Irish rugby if that’s your view because there’s nothing that happened yesterday that will have Sam gone from the 23, and probably not even gone from the first 15.
How so? Ive found them to be decent fans over 20 years of interacting with them in Dublin, Twickenham and European matches involving both leinster and munster.
Are you just talking about online posts? Look at the nonsense here sure.
Both 10s had good games, both had errors they'd prefer they didn't, it should be ok for a poster to call those errors out, unfortunately any criticism of Sam (in particular) is pounced on with a certain viciousness.
If Borthwick had name checked Sam as the reason England couldn't get a foothold in the game I'd put my house on it that he wouldn't be referred to as a spoofer
Yes, the coaches picked Sam to start and I think they need to pick him again for next week unless they had already told him that he was benching v Scotland.
We're not going to develop an international outhalf by chopping and changing.
I agree that Sam is very light and it worries me for him.
The rest of your post is absolute crap. SP is the future at 10 and a very exciting prospect.
Keep at it bud, you're not convincing anyone who wasn't previously convinced. And making yourself look bad to boot. But I could just select any post from you to see that :D
I don’t really understand the criticism of Borthwick. He’s not the sharpest tool in the box but he’s improved them some bit all things considered.
He has taken on a **** show after eddie jones, he has had to reside over the introduction of new players in key positions like Props, 2nd row, 9 & 10.
A team that lost the Vinopolous, launchbury, dan Cole, Danny care, Owen Farrell, Young, Tuilagi, lawes, underhill and Marler and others.
His team has been decimated of talent, he’s bringing in new players and still staying some bit competitive.
They are a team that’s building, we are a team that’s peaked if you look at out autumn performances.
Great result and what an impact bench. I think Crowley off the bench to close out the game is a good tactic and may get the best out of both.
English fans are sore losers as usual.
You need to compare like with like. Murray came into a squad with an aging Stringer and Reddan, there was nobody standing in his way.
Jack Crowley was brilliant for Ireland last year in the Six Nations.
Furlong was brought to the World cup due to Marty Moore being injured and Janes Cronin struggling for form.
Mod Edit
Warning issued,
Crowley played better than Sam yesterday. He did miss a tackle to concede a try and got turned over for a penalty in the 20 minites he played. If he made 3 times those mistakes in 60 minutes, the shine would be gone off his performance
However, Jack is a better tackler.Over the course of the season, Sam is statistically a better penalty taker but was off yesterday. Sam kicked too far yesterday. But if you wrte to reward performance, Jack would start the next day
Absolutely on the money with that assessment. It’s a pity he didn’t write a similar assessment of Crowleys performance just to get an experienced neutrals take on it as well.
Prendergast was nowhere near as bad as some make out on here and equally Crowley was nowhere near as good or as influential as being made out. I’d have put both of them down as being equal.
Imagine if the roles were reversed and Sam was on for the last 20 minutes and got isolated a few metres out under the posts when we were ferociously attacking their line after he decided to go alone instead of pass and gave away a stupid turnover? Or if he missed a tackle in the last few mins which allowed them in for a try that gave them a losing bonus point (I know Henshaw was equally to blame here but no one would see that if it was Sam on the pitch)? There’d be uproar over his defence ability and his decision making and we’d be told he should never play for Ireland again as Crowley would be so much better in them positions. Yet after Crowley making both them mistakes, which could have been a 14 point turnaround and been the winning or losing of a tight game, we’re being told he was the saviour and turned the game around for us.
Equally if Crowley had started and missed the 2 conversions he’d be being hammered and we’d be told Sam should have started and he’d never have missed them kicks. Or if Crowley had made that run and pass, a play that ended in Smith being sin binned, we’d be told this is why he should always start yet when Sam does these things they are glossed over because he made a few kicks too deep before that.
We should be glad to have the 2 of them there, at the minute Sam is the front runner and nothing that happened yesterday will have changed that, but that role could easily change one way or the other multiple times over the next few years and that’s exactly what we should be hoping for as it’ll mean both are getting better all the time and that puts us in a better position at 10 than we’ve ever been in.
IMHO I'd rather have Crowley close the game than Prendergast. I might be wrong but....
Anyway the coaching ticket got it right. We beat one of the top 5 sides in the world. Obviously things to learn on for next week. Ireland are in a good place. Happy days
I think you need to stop feeling insulted and using pejorative terms like 'dropped', he is being 'developed' as is Crowley. I think the two of them are mature enough to cope with not starting so too should the support. Personally, I think it's what we should be doing if building to a WC.
And it is certainly the mature and professional attitude we should have to having two fledgling talents vying for the position.
i watched the match again this morning .
Our pack were blown away in the 1st 30 mins and England should have put more points on the board. Their back row outmuscled our back row and Marcus smith tactical awareness was excellent. So would have to give credit to England for that time period. England also successfully targeted Sam and made inroads there as our back row tried to cover the Space that you expect your 10 to cover. SP was very poor in this period of the game, but our gameplan couldnt adjust .
England started to tire and we came into the game more, and SP stated to get some decent ball and space, but at least 3 kicks from hand were too long for the chasers. This changed before half time and he stated to find his range .
He was still lying too deep in attack and couldnt attack the England defence or provide a viable attacking threat in his own right, so depended on his excellent pass choice. it nearly ended disastrously on one occasion but came good for the two tries.
Crowley came on and the whole tone of our back line attack changed. His attacking threat and his choice of play was aggressive and hard to defend . The English were tireing at this stage and the entire Ireland bench proved their worth.
Player ratings are clickbait, what is important is the team and how players fit into that team.
IMO Crowely should have started yesterday with SP coming on to close out the game. Whatever Farrell and Easter by are seeing from SP in training isn’t yet translating into Match day. The phrase train like Tarzan, play like Jane comes to mind. He’s definitely one for the future, as his passing choice is excellent , but not the now against tough physical opposition like England or France
PS, if Lowe wasn’t on the field , i dont think we would have won the game as his attacking threat demanded at least 2 defenders stretched out wide every time the ball was sent to him.
The only person truly able to make that judgement is the coach. The coach has access to so much more information and has made a far more informed decision then any of us can make. CLEARLY they think Prendergast is ready.
How can you say Prendergast is undercooked? On what basis can you Come to that conclusion?
Conor Murray went to the RWC 2011 yet he hadn't played in the HC at that stage. Did he earn his place after a handful of Celtic league games.
Had Furlong played in the HC for Leinster before he went to the 2015 RWC?
Its not that anyone has made up their minds against Sam, its that he's not ready yet and hasn't earned his place.
Crowley earned his spot and did nothing to deserve getting dropped, so people are understandably hard on Prendergast because to justify dropping Crowley for Sam, we cant then give Prendergast an armchair ride and pretend he's ready when he's clearly undercooked.
Mod Edit.
Scotland will be very different game to England. If we are a lot less wasteful in their 22 then I see Ireland winning reasonably comfortable.
We spent a lot of time in England's 22 with attacking lineouts yesterday and didn't capitalise. We fix that and we will do a number on Scotland.
Two years ago we had no hooker for an hour and replaced 5 (?) players through injury in the first half and still gave them a bit of a beating.
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Bor-exit looming with a predictable spanking by Les Blues at home next week!!
