What projects are moving along within their required time scales? The 6 month mark has long past on all such projects AFAIK.
The Luas Fingls application went in November, due to be decided 26th of May 2025. Luas Finglas is also a very good quality submission. I'll eat my hat if it has an RO by that date.
That's leaving the state wide open to issues down the line, from substandard designs, to possible drainage and flooding issues, to unsafe roads. It would be like signing a blank check for future court cases by those affected.
It's probably also against EU law given the environmental impact of projects on European sites in particular wouldn't be assessed.
I said new cases are progressing relatively quickly. I didn't mention those in the backlog. Those are also now starting to move, but as they've been there for so long already it doesn't really make a noticeable difference to their timelines.
Christ no. That would just lead to massive problems down the line. And it would be highly unlikely to be legal anyway.
We'll see with luas finglas then since that's newly submitted. Here's hoping it gets an RO in May but I have my doubts
I think you need to read the post I was replying to.
Just to be clear, a planning amnesty is not anything which I would ever support. Properly legislated changes to general rules are a different matter.
question, if there was just a shuttle to howth, how many darts could serve the airport an hour? 2 each way or just 1 ? also they have mentioned this plan before, would it be single or twin track?
While I don't want to underestimate the problems the delayed depot might bring, I think its a bit pessimistic to say that the depot issues might make D+ completely inoperable. There is no denying the delays it might cause, but given the time it takes the electrify it was going to take quite a bit of time to get the full capacity D+ network anyways.
With the third order soon to be in place, there will "only" be 93 units left in the framework, or 5 orders(assuming 20 units per order) if they decide to fulfill the entire framework. I don't like to use the word only, as that is still almost two-thirds of the framework, but it isn't a doomed timeframe. If they place the fourth order sometime in 2027 and then place an order ever year after until 2031 when the framework expires, they can still complete the framework.
Its far from the ideal situation to be in, and I think its likely that at the current rate when the D+ network first opens they may be short units to operate at fully capacity. But I think any shortage of units we might see would be temporary while they are still being manufactured or commissioned. As Jim Meade put it, It's "not on a critical path" yet. That I do think if they take too long to get a new depot designed, or if it gets stuck in ABP or JR hell, then there might be problem, but I am trying not to think about that.
Also, what is the story with the D+W JRs? The court cases appear to be up on the high court website but there has been no publicity about it's a bit hard to find out what is going on. I'm assuming it's about the Ashtown crossing?
so depressing we just can't do anything in this country
Is this set in stone or is there any chance this timeline could improve?
The timeline will most likely get worse, it's ireland after all
Everything has been said already but a vague date of 2027 to begin construction really is frightfully poor.
We've been talking about "DART+" / "DART Expansion" for a decade now and absolutely nothing has been delivered.
It's shameful that at this rate none of the proposed network expansions below will have even begun construction by the time the gates were meant to open. Is there any legitimate reason why preparing the tenders etc. is going to take 2-3 years?
At this rate I wouldn’t be surprised if the batteries in the BEMUs go end of life before Drogheda is electrified! 😂
Didn't someone say that the opportunity for JR of DART+ SouthWest had expired, which means it has moved ahead of Dart West?
If I am reading the timeline right, the 2-3 year timeline is for the main works, but there are plenty of enabling works to be done before then. So it isn't 2-3 years of no work being done, but maybe a year of no work because of tendering, then enabling works begin, and then by the time the enabling works finish, the main works contract should be awarded and ready to begin.
yes techincally they are ahead but likely both will be delivered together
This was expected. Irish Rail can deliver parts of the works themselves before getting a contractor to site in 2027. The arrival of main contractors on site in 2027 will be more of a ramp up of works.
Does anyone know what the increase in capacity for the northern line will be from current service level to when the BEMUs are running from 2026?
I see the attached info graphic mentions that the increases in capacity are a comparison between post BEMU and the service level upon completion of Dart + Coastal North.
Will there actually be a significant increase in passenger capacity at peak when the BEMUs are rolled out?
I can't find it now but Irish Rail was asked about this recently. I think the short answer was not really. They said total capacity of the BEMUs will be about the same as the current commuter trains but a bit more than the inter-city trains which they will be replacing entirely on the northern line.
The BEMUs will be direct replacements for the 29000s.
No frequency increase until the EMUs arrive and electrification happens.
It is a bit hard to say, but realistically pre-electrification there wont be a large, if any, increase in frequency. During the morning peak there are currently 3 services between 06:00 and 07:00 and 4 between 07:00 and 08:00, however that includes 1 Dundalk service for each hour. With the BEMUs, it may be possible to see an additional depature an hour for 4tph originating from Drogheda, however I wouldn't be surprised if they can't increase past 3 services because of charging and/or siding capacity.
However there should at least be some increase in capacity, because as the new units enter service, it should allow almost all services to use full length 8/10-car sets. Additionally the new units also can carry more passengers than the 29Ks, though with only 3-4 tph I am not sure if it would be a noticeable increase.
The plan
Initial entry into service, this releases a few 29k's to strengthen any 4 car operations e.g. Docklands and ICR's used on Maynooth and Drogheda services released to intercity operations
Standardising on 29K sets will help greatly with timetable performance as the ICR's suck on dwell times and having a spare set of two will help ensure no short formations
Cork is the logical destination for the 29000 as the 2600's are 1994 builds and they are struggling with demand
Until the physical upgrade works are completed, turn back at Malahide, 4th platform at Drogheda there isn't scope for services
Thanks all. So likely the biggest beneficiaries in the short term in terms of capacity would be those travelling on the M3-Parkway to Docklands route as a result of BEMUs freeing up the 29000s?
It was more a question of whether the BEMU trains could carry more passengers than existing services, as I understood from the website that service frequency itself wouldn't increase for now.
Seems like there will be massive strain on the network there in the decade to come, as it would seem from the timelines that is how long it will take to get the northern line electrified. There is a phenomenal amount of building going on in North County Dublin.
Couple of recent pics of when they finally got it moving. 😂
The railway order for DART+ North is due to be decided on Monday (a bank holiday). So given that nothing has happened to day and no communication on the matter, it's safe to say that the 6 month duration is pure fiction/comedy. 2 years is the minimum time for a railway order, some recently have taken 4 years. Metrolink is coming up on 2.5 years, a total sh1tshow.
Is it just the angle of the photo or does the new train look quite narrow compared to the 22000 class beside it? I think the 22000's are 2.84m (9' 4") wide, but may be that narrow because of their length. But the new train looks even narrower than it, or at least no wider, which surprised me as I expected them to be wider than existing stock (maybe 10' wide or a slightly more) due to each car being so short in length.
Service frequency might not increase, but with more 29000's available might they have longer trains?
The peak Docklands services really need to be 8 car 29s at this stage, so hopefully that does happen. After replacing all the floors!
One evening peak to Maynooth is a 4x29 also.
Regarding capacity, the answer is “yes”, the new stock will carry more passengers. From official figures: 1102 passengers per 10-car BEMU formation (2x 5-cars, 164 m), versus 819 in an 8-car 29000 formation (2x 4-cars, 163 m)
Test running started this week and is penciled in across Dublin for the next 10 days. Even going as far as Wicklow…
