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Microgeneration Rates

mandrk

Got notification from Electric Ireland that they will cut their microgen rate from today from 21c to 19.5c per kWh.

I understood Electric Irl to be one of the better rates when I got my installation in June 2023. Find it really difficult to find out what the various suppliers pay for microgeneration. I there a simple supplier comparison listed anywhere?

…. Or what are other folks getting from other suppliers?

Thanks

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Sleamhain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122969876#Comment_122969876

Just found this yesterday on search for a new provider. Best energy comparison website I've ever seen. So simple to pick the best one for you especially with smart meter data available.

wexfordman2

I don't get how they are allowed reduced micro gen rate within contract, seems absurd that it's not a break in contract on their behalf.

Exiled Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972767#Comment_122972767

Because it's not part of the contract.

Sleamhain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972767#Comment_122972767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973017#Comment_122973017

It is a part of contract. A provider can change whatever they want during the contract period but that change allows you leave without penalty if you dont accept the new terms.

I emailed Energia earlier this week to confirm it, and have already changed supplier after finding a better one for me using energypal.ie

I contacted Energia this week and asked if the reduction of microgen rates would lead to a reduction in tafiffs. I also asked if I could terminate the contract early due to this change. See response below…

"Thank you for contacting Energia.

I hope that you are well.

We do not currently have a reduction in tariffs planned. We have previously had 2 with no amendment to CEG tariff. If we do so in the future, we will inform you accordingly.

The lowering of the CEG export tariff is a change to your contract, and you do have 30 days from the notification to switch suppliers with no termination fee.

Please contact us by either email or telephone to advise if you are doing so to ensure that your termination fee is removed as this will not happen automatically."

Sleamhain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122956643#Comment_122956643

I have to say I think the dynamic pricing is a fair way to operate the electricity grid. If you can adjust to it, there are benefits to be made. Everyone using the peak impacts the grid, wholesale prices increase, electricity costs more - Conversely at night time. And you actually do see some very low prices at the lowest demand point of the night (which typically occurs between 00:00 and 07:00)

EirGrid demand dashboard for the last week below. Note the troughs happening each night which correlate with many suppliers smart tariff cheap electricity rates.

Two-thirds of my own electricity consumption for the last 12 months has been between the hours of 2 and 6am, reducing my average €/kwh significantly (around 7c per kwh)

Exiled Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974507#Comment_122974507

i stand corrected

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974507#Comment_122974507

Now Would that also mean if there is a price rise, that is a change of contract too?… Seems to be.

Sleamhain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974582#Comment_122974582

Yeah I'm pretty sure it would be the same, I've left mobile phone and TV providers in the past without penalty when the price has changed. First time doing it for electricity though I think.

mjatkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974507#Comment_122974507

Can I ask who you switched to? Thanks

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122969876#Comment_122969876

great site thanks for that!
contract due in January and a decent saving to be made.

The person behind it should make the “buy me a coffee” button bigger!

Sleamhain

I switched to Bord Gais. It came up best for my usage by a little over €120 annually after uploading my smart meter data to energypal.ie . But I guess it will depend on each households usage.

There is a risk that Bord Gais could also reduce their feed in rate, but I export around 2000 units per year, so it would need to drop by about 6c/kWh to swallow up that €120 saving which is very unlikely.

Dr Robert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976289#Comment_122976289

Plush you can always just leave if they do drop it.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974507#Comment_122974507

Nice work!

raydator

Can you please support this petition?

The rates have been dropping and at this rate, give it another couple of years and we won't get anything for our microgeneration.

https://chng.it/PGNPZGR2FY

Dr Robert

Tbf, microgeneration rates are a nice bonus, nothing more.

I can see them being peanuts in three or four years.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984115#Comment_122984115

You are fighting a losing battle. As more solar comes online, the only way is down

graememk

If you were here when it was first discussed, it went were estimating it being around night rate and the wholesale price of electricity.

In 2019 the wholesale average was 5c/kWh,

In 2020 it was 3.5c/kWh but that was an exceptional year for energy prices.

Current average for this year is around 10c/kWh

So we're getting about 2x the wholesale rate.

bullit_dodger

Before the FIT rates were announced, my personal guess was €0.08/kWh. So when it was announced that it was €0.18/kWh I was pleasantly surprised. it's a shame that they are reducing (along with the actual consumption rates), but it will go to €0.10/kWh or so I reckon within 2-3 years.

Best way to look at FIT is a bonus. Solar even without FIT was always a money saving thing……adding in FIT just makes it that little bit better.

Dr Robert

The real losers of a lowering of FIT will be people who were sold an overpriced system.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984123#Comment_122984123

It will be a lot worse than peanuts 😀

Once there is an oversupply of electricity from PV during sunny hours - like there is nearly every sunny day in the Netherlands, the price goes negative and solar panel owners with dynamic electricity plans actually have to pay to export. Might not happen here for a long time as the solar install per household in Ireland is shamefully low.

Still, I can't wait for dynamic plans here, I have all the hardware ready and roaring to go. Could make quite a decent bit of money on it.

adne

Battery a must as FIT rates drop. Anyone using luna2000 battery.. thoughts? Recommend seller online?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122992338#Comment_122992338

I wouldn't be quite so pessimistic, you're assuming there'll be a drop in electricity demand in the near term which doesn't seem likely given the amount of money being poured into data centers

Of course if/when it turns out that this whole AI thing is a bubble designed to drive share prices rather than any meaningful productivity then there might be a collapse in demand. I still don't think it'll result in a drop in data center usage, just an adjustment of prices which will slow growth

There's also the production side, I would say personally that there's been a definite decline in the number of home solar installations in my area. It seems that people have just gotten used to prices as they are and will sit on the status quo no matter how miserable they are. I feel like humans true power is the ability to put up with things that annoy them

So barring anything drastic, my guess is we'll see a steady decline in FIT rates over the next 2-3 years, but a few smaller suppliers will try to keep them high as a way to lure in new customers.

As I recall BG tried low balling the FIT initially and lost a bunch of customers as a result, so there's a definite lower limit to how far one company can go

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122992831#Comment_122992831

Agree with most of that. There will be huge annual increases in Ireland's electricity consumption for decades as we electrify everything like heating and transport. And AI most certainly is not a bubble.

I do see quite a lot of local solar installs though, hope that will keep going. Even though the subsidy will go down by another €300 next week. But it seems impossible we will ever get the same wp per capita as they have in NL or AUS

JohnySwan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122993061#Comment_122993061

Agreed, In the last couple of years my average daily consumption has gone from under 10 kwh to about 35 kwh in winter. 2 Ev's, and heat pump.

Triman111

hi - releated but seperate query - I'm being paid 20c per kwh for microgen. but should I be getting 9% vat on top of that?

my current provide no not pay the extra 9% but previous did? just wondering what the rules are here?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123689886#Comment_123689886

Some suppliers quote + vat some quote Inc vat

Energia quotes Inc vat

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123689886#Comment_123689886

you are not registered for VAT, so can’t charge it.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123691247#Comment_123691247

It's not as clear cut as that.

Most are paying it "with vat"

Flogas quote + vat but pay Inc vat.

I'll dig up a old bill later and show.

Energia quote 20c pay it after all the vat is calculated.

Proper grey area.

Edit : Adding flogas example

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123691247#Comment_123691247

nothing to do with that

Triman111

appreciate the responses - I'm with energia - they quote 20c but don't reference that VAT is incl. on their website or small print. I think I should just assume it is and make peace with it.