Title suggestions welcome!
All discussion about squad selection etc should go here
Whatever the squad composition, it'll still have too many Scots
From an Irish perspective, I would be very disappointed with fewer than 10 representatives and I think 15 is achievable, injuries permitting.
Definites: Porter, Sheahan, Furlong, VDF, Doris, JGP, Keenan plus two from (Beirne, Ryan, McCarthy) and at least one centre.
Probables: The third lock, another centre, Lowe, Conan
In with a good shout: Kelleher, the third centre, Baird, Casey, Hansen, Crowley
Outside bets: Gus McCarthy, Bealham, Baird, Henderson, Osborne, Prendergast
Gus McCarthy is one of those players I wouldn't be shocked to see leapfrog Kelleher to the Lions.
A lot will come down to size of squad obviously but I imagine a degree of versatility will be quite important for the fringe choices.
Farrell’s top 40
A good Lions tour to get selected for - a guaranteed winning tour.
Osbornes versatility should get him on the plane potentially ahead of one of the other Irish centres.
Prendergast will also likely be starting 10 after leading Ireland to the grand slam and Leinster to the 5th star.
It's possible there will be 0 Welsh players. Some change from the Gatland years. Lake, Morgan, Williams and Beard the only realistic options at this point.
It's very hard to know which English players will travel as their teams seems a lot less than the sum of its parts. Marcus Smith is a dead cert, Itoje, Genge and Feyi-Waboso almost definitely and a half dozen others will get 50/50 calls.
Scotland will have Russell for certain, Tuipolotu almost definitely, Graham highly likely as well as Zander Fagerson. Jones, Van Der Merwe, Kinghorn* have a great chance and Cummings could sneak in along with Ben White and maybe a random back rower.
Ireland will have Porter, Sheehan and Furlong, Beirne, van der Flier, Doris, Gibson-Park, Keenan almost certainly.
Aki is likely, probably one of Henshaw and Ringrose but not all 3. There'll probably be a few others, maybe Ryan, Conan, Hansen, Bealham. Osbourne an outside chance and maybe one of the fly halves.
I've probably missed some obvious ones. I think George Martin will travel and maybe Fins Baxter and Smith for the bolters. Cunningham-South, Joe McCarthy, Gus McCarthy, Rory Darge, Aaron Wainwright, Alex Mitchell, Ollie Sleightholme...
*If Toulouse let him go in time.
When is Sheehan due back? Will he have enough time to prove his fitness and form?
Not sure we can say that anymore. That Australian side is on a good trajectory.
Gus McCarthy… for the Lions?
Does every other player who makes a debut in a Lions season for other teams get this kind of a shout??
Jack Willis could be brought even if he is not allowed play for England....
There will definitely be a few token Welsh picked.
I wonder will he pick his own son?
Sam Simmonds was still with Exeter but not getting a sniff with England and he made the last Lions tour and rightfully so.
Be stunned if Willis doesn't go. He's been superb for the last few seasons.
Didn't want to respond to you in the Ireland thread now that this has been opened. My opinion on Huw Jones has nothing to do with being childish. It's just that he is an inferior player to any of Ringrose, Henshaw or Aki. I really don't think that's a reach to say. I would be shocked if Huw Jones travels.
Personally I think all 3 Irish centres travel if fit and their form doesn't fall off a cliff along with Tuipulotu.
I think Owen Farrell will be brought as a centre.
I don't think he will play ahead of Aki/Henshaw/Tuipulotu. Previous tours he went to 12 to allow Sexton play 10 and to get 2 of the best players on the pitch at the same time. Don't think that will be the scenario this time. Although he could well be a good bench option in a 6-2 split.
jones is a great player and should be in the overall mix/conversation, its just id argue that ringrose is better still. i think GR is ireland (and leinster)'s best 13 by a mile despite, despite how capable henshaw is there. its hard to tell since its rare that aki, henshaw and ringrose are all available at the same time, but i do think its likely that farrell doesnt necessarily agree on this though and could see RH as his first choice 13 - if thats the case its probably he picks aki, henshaw and the two scottish centres along with a utility back who can slot in if needed
I think his intangible qualities - he's meant to be a great and popular teammate, his leadership, his place kicking etc are all factors why it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a spot for him in the wider touring party.
The Lions is still quite a political landscape given it relies on the 4 Home Unions.
There is zero chance Faz doesn't pick a few Welsh players even if it's just tokenism.
While a lot can happen in 6 months as of now I'm not sure what Owen has done in Racing to make him a must pick.
They're languishing mid table of the Top14. Curiously he's not their primary place kicker either having not attempted a shot on goal since round 2.
He's also had groin surgery and will be out until the new year. The odds are very much against him being included tbh.
The landscape is much different for Jack Willis who looks like he cannot be ignored. His breakdown work is probably the best in the world at the moment. Toulouse will likely be at the pointy end of both competitions this season and he's in the shop window.
"Nothing" is essentially the answer, its more what he did the previous 10 years. He's in a slightly odd situation in that he left the England still an excellent player. That being said I don't think we'd be having the discussion if there were 3 other obvious choices.
To continue on this discussion here…
He's arguably first choice, we will find out in a few weeks - and there is no guarantee the situation doesn't change over the course of the 6N either.
This is pretty much the definition of what a "bolter" is though.
I would think him and Fin Smith are in similar positions actually in terms of being in with a shot of going but needing significant gametime in the 6N (and I don't think Smith will get it).
Think it's pretty obvious he's first choice, who else would be?
Crowley, obviously. It's between the two of them.
Unless you were being completely disingenuous.
Definitely between the two of them but would think on form, and how Farrell seems to be thinking, Prendergast is first choice currently.
Crowley needs to be fix his kicking asap or he won't even be in the conversation.
Either way, I don't think Crowley will even be considered for the Lions Tour, Prendergast will be as a young bolter.
I assume you mean line-kicking and open field kicking? As goal-kicking is not a particular strength of Prendergast. Crowley will never get the same distance as SP, but I think there is some over-egging of the problem with regards to the few kicks out on the full. He's also just playing in a much worse environment which will have an impact.
Anyway, that's more for the Ireland thread - whoever is the Irish 10 at the end of the 6N will be in with a shout of travelling as third 10 but I don't think any of them will realistically be in contention for the tests.
Yeah if Crowley is first choice again for the 6N, of course he’ll be in the conversation for the Lions. It’s very hard to know who it will be at this point.
If we have a good 6N, pretty much anyone who features regularly will be in the mix
Line kicking and place kicking. While place kicking isn't Prendergast biggest strength, Crowleys % the last few games is abysmal. Guessing this is something in his head that he needs to shake because he didn't become a poor place kicker overnight.
Agreed with your final sentence, neither of them likely to feature is any test but do think Prendergast has a possible decent shout going as number 3 if he has a good 6 nations. But as you said, this is probably more suited to the Ireland thread than here.
There's no world in which Sam prendergast is "obviously" first choice for Ireland.
He has played 154 minutes of test rugby over 3 games, whereas his direct opponent for the jersey has 20 caps and over 1000 minutes.
The only way your post makes any sense is if you've completely forgotten about Jack crowley
URC this season, kicking success rates:
Sam Prendergast - 91%
Jack Crowley - 29%
so ones a poor kicker and the other is as effective as a wet paper bag when trying to make a tackle. I know which one id prefer.
