I think it will be FF/FG again with god knows who. Hopefully a left wing party
It will be November 15th
How was he going to get away with saying nothing.
The first question from the media would have been "If the numbers add up will you go into coalition with SF". Without a definitive "no" FF supporters would have walked in droves, plus as @ Loafing Oaf has said so would any hope of FG transfers. There was no upside for Martin or FF in saying nothing. The upside, as it panned out, was in leaving no doubt on SF.
They had been in government together for over 4 years, and a confidence and supply agreement for the term prior with no major dust ups, so of course the understanding was they were each others preference as coalition partners. Which from their transfers was well understood and favoured by both sets of supporters as well as the rest of the voting public. That didn`t mean that both were not determined to come out on top on FPV`s and seat numbers.
Offer it then, don’t pretend to be different. They will pretend now there is some bog hurdles to jump when that population you mentioned know it’s a done deal.
You're acting like it's a big conspiracy that they are being secret about wanting to work together. It's been clear since 2020 that both parties will work with each other and the election was about seeing who could be the bigger party. But in a situation where they will work together. FF voters knew this, FG voters knew this. The voting population knew this.
A smart man would have said nothing. I suspect the whole deal with FG was done a long time ago. Like they shadow boxed in the campaign they’ll shadow box in government formation talks.
Certainly would've hit the FG transfers which proved so crucial to FF winning so many seats. Whereas I doubt leaving the option open would've picked up many cimpensating transfers from SF or the wider left…
Francie you are aeound long enough to know that many of FF`s supporters despise SF
If Martin had not stated he was ruling out any deal with SF after the election he knew he would lose votes and would not have got close to the number of seats he now has.
I would suspect there are many people who objectively look at FF/FG and see very little difference between them and think they could/should merge. Far from limited to SF voices.
Yes but very few within either party themselves AFAIK which should tell you something.
Willie O'Dea says a merged party would be less than the sum of its parts and I'd say that's the predominant opinion in both parties.
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240718/281633900471409?srsltid=AfmBOorSyhdKOX0wcEbagp7cifJHBPVfuM43hJPQWHIaJjl7Lg5CyoRa
You could put Martin handing the stick to FG (refusing to talk to the other main party) to political naivety or stupidity but if he now compounds it and gives them rotating Taoiseach then I think it is more than a 'coalition'. It's a tacit merger based on (take your pick here) a 2 partyfear of losing power or a 2 party sense of entitlement.
The political discourse in Ireland's MSM is dominated by 'pundits' who are broadly centrist and on the whole are not particularly well disposed to the left - that's unarguable in my view - Harry McGee, Fionnan Sherhan, Philip Ryan, Kevin Doyle, Daniel McConnell, Stephen Collins, Pat Leahy, John Lee etc. It's not just them as individuals but it's the press they write for, why is there such uniformaty of opinion across the spectrum? Vincent Browne and Gene Kerrigan were lone voices against this journalistic hegemony. The entire mantra of the last decade is the 'centre must hold' it's repeated ad nauseum, so any left alternative is broadly ridiculed and dismissed. That's why the results for the LP and SD have been welcomed as some sort of major breakthrough and the SF performance cast as negative. The LP and the SD are the acceptable face of the 'left'.
SF have steadily shifted to the centre/right over the last decade and it hasn't worked in terms of getting them into power, the shift hasn't been enough for the 'pundits' so they keep critiquing and pushing for more and SF continues to oblige.
Coming from a fantasist I`ll give your opinion the respect it deserves. 😁
It would be like keeping the weeds down.
Once you chop the head off one cvnt another one pops up.
Your basing your numbers on how they could get more elected by simply running more candidated. Mathematics or politics doesn`t work like that.
They ran 42 candidates this time and won 3 seats. A success rate of 7%. To reach that 78% success rate you mentioned, even if mathematics worked like you are proposing, they would need to run 42 x 11. 462 candidates which would have them running on average over 10 candidates in each constituency.
As they are they are a party going in reverse. As far as I recall they had 6 elected in 2016, 5 in 2020 and now, with extra Dail seats added, are down to 3.
Realistically we have loads of parties who really should and could merge but won't do so anytime soon.
All of the Independents would fit into one of the above groupings as well
They don't need to merge. They are transferring to each other so the public will perceive them as the same entity after 2 coalitions that deliver crap public services.
The power swap is no more. Now we have the power share where they will work together to keep power and keep everyone else out. It's only a matter of time before they are found out.
Not a notion. If they were serious in any way they would have been talking for the past 4 years. Despite all that's gone on the last 4 years the incumbents still go into government. FF and FG aren't begging a third party. They'll pull together a few independents.
I'd reckon SF, had they any cop on and not having been distracted by their only internal issues should have been talking to other parties for the last few years and giving the electorate something concrete to vote on.....
FF and FG have shown the benefits of not merging.
The leaders debate for example 2 against 1.
Very unfair when 2 of the parties are so aligned.
Loads of candidates everywhere pretending to be not the same.
The original target date was 2028. A 10 year implementation plan. Like the children's hospital it will slip and slip and slip. It probably will never get done. Hence all the resignations.
The health region move alone has taken 6 years and is really only starting. Glacially slow and you cannot blame party change.
The only people urging FF and FG to merge are SF supporters because they believe that will be an advantage to SF.
No serious pundits are saying it today. All we are hearing about is that Labour and SDs should merge and that SF need to go back to the drawing board after their terrible performance.
But that's simply not true. They are separate parties with similar policies and who will likely form governments into the future. But they are separate parties.
No idea.
Especially when their co-founder Roisin Shortall, the chair of the committee that published the reoprt on Slaintecare, ran a mile from doing anything about it 4 years ago when she was offered the opportunity during talks to form a government then.
Eh, Covid devastated health systems across the world, ours has actually managed to recover fairly well.
Slaintecare can't be implemented in five years, transformation costs money, apart from the fact that no health system ever in the world has been able to facilitate unlimited demand.
See that's the problem Timmy, you'd think regardless of it being seperate departments that they could do both, but you can be sure, whether that be financial constraints, or just the lack of will on their part, that both wouldn't be prioritised. They have made a mess of a solitary hospital, so i'd rather they focused on getting one priority done at a time, if indeed that means they get housing fixed
I'm not worried in the slightest- there is more chance of the developers working for no profit than there is of the left sticking together😂
Found a clip of the current round of negotiations:
##Mod Snip##
No Memes/comedy clips
I cannot see any way that FG would accept MM being Taoiseach for the lifetime of the government. That really would solidify their status as junior partner…..something that could very well have dire long term consequences for them as a party.
Either they rotate the Taoiseach evenly and give FF more ministries or they split the ministries and give Martin 3 years as Taoiseach.
You do realise that housing is a totally different department of government?
And government can do more than 1 thing at a time?
There is no excuse for slaintecare to be so far off target
Housing
What bigger priorities are there?
There is a mandate though. FF and FG got almost the exact same amount of first preference votes.
It was also FG transfers that got a lot of FF candidates over the line.
The people have voted for a continuation of FFG.
There is zero chance of FF risking 48 seats over this. People would just flood to SF / SD / Lab who would lap it up.
You are deluded.
Not only that but you are wrong about FF having a majority in cabinet. That won't be happening either.
No, not talking overnight, but this could be implemented in the next 6 years, no need to be pushing it out to 2035.
They are being urged to 'admit' they have merged because to all intents and purposes they have. Nobody is buying the pretence anymore. When their supporters here are saying 'sure the electorate knew what they are voting for' the game is up.
