-Are you aware that Aluminium is corrosive and has to be coated with materials like epoxy?
-I don't know a single-use Aluminium drink container that has a lid.
-I don't know any drink container from Aluminium thats bigger than 1L, how would you pack bigger volumes?
-how exactly can Aluminium be "mechanically identified" in the waste stream?
don't get me wrong, Alloy is for the right thing a very nice material, but "lts bottle everything in Alloy" is certainly not the way forward.
Aluminium cans with lids do exist, but they're vastly more expensive to make - the "bullet can" types with twist off metal lids need to be very strong to not deform; and the newer type uses - guess what? - a pile of single use plastic on top to provide a seal. Which would burn off during recycling of the metal.
Resealable glass bottles have existed forever and are pretty common on "premium" US made soft drinks; the lid is metal which is recyclable itself albeit with a plastic seal inside. There's pretty much no escape from having some plastic somewhere.
The 1L cans of beer that Lidl sometimes have are almost unusable to drink or pour from.
I hadn't considered the use of epoxy resin / other coating. Having done so now, I still think aluminum with a thin layer of epoxy resin is better than a whole container made with PET plastic.
Re: lids, larger containers, etc - I don't disagree - I said "near perfect substitute" for that reason in my post. I think that 'Aluminum OR glass' can replace PET for practically all single use beverage containers. [I acknowledge that some plastic material will still be needed in containers that are primarily made of aluminum or glass for sealing, coating or labelling, etc, I am not saying these are necessarily 0% plastic solution]. Re: mechanically identifying aluminum containers, this can be done using electromagnetic technology (a good description here: https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/magnetic-equipment-guide----eddy-current-separators/).
Do you agree with me then that a systemic change (away from plastic) would have been better than DRS?
I consider that both are required. Moving to aluminium and glass without a method to ensure collection for recycling and reuse respectively isn't enough.
Mixed stream recycling is not an effective way to get them back and is not an incentive to ensure they actually get to a recycling bin in the first place.
i personally see the best aspect of the DRS that way less bottles and cans trown in the bushes.
Dont think we should go back to "before"
Who's in charge: us or plastic? Also in the news today, a new plastic which will biodegrade in seawater.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00254gg
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20241122_11/#:~:text=An%20international%20team%20led%20by,of%20microplastics%20in%20the%20oceans.
I think there are more differences than similarities between DRS and those initiatives.
An update from Brainstorm with some more information about "paying forward" and community involvement.
I found the bulk machine that pays out only on in scope items but accepts all particularly interesting.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/1122/1460599-ireland-deposit-return-scheme-innovations/
Our scheme compared to few other countries look pretty much like this…
what have I stumbled upon…?
That's how politics works. Corrupt people in governance will know where money will be invested and where money should be invested to make a profit. It was the ultimate scam, make people pay a new tax for something that they usually just throw into the recycling bin. If we bring them back then great it's more profit for the recycling company that said politicians and their friends had already invested in. They also invested in the machines for the deposit return scheme. It's just pure profiteering plain and simple.
make people pay a new tax for something that they usually just throw into the recycling bin.
Again…this isn't a tax. The exchequer doesn't see a penny of it. It would have much been better for the country over all if it was actually a tax instead of going straight into the pockets of a private enterprise.
All the money that has been accrued from people who don't, or can't, claim it back on their cans/plastic is now "resting" in the account of Re-turn, Father Ted style.
You recycled my video from the previous page.
Of course they're different, several people here are saying DRS should have been introduced differently, with a focus on reducing the amount of plastic produced, rather than assigning an artificial value to it.
I think we should stick with the EU Directive.
If the EU decides to restrict use of plastic we move with them.
The Single Use Plastics element of the Directive does focus on reducing the amount of new plastic. And crucial to achieving that is the clean stream of material from DRS.
An old argument about how DRS scheme did not affect pricing beacuse tesco 1l soda water price is lower than it was before DRS introduction. 😁
And Lidl and Aldi are lower than Tesco. Tesco went down 10 cents, the other two 16 cents.
So what?? I still have to collect all plastic bottles and cans for return to a machine miles away to get a deposit back, when I have a recycling bin at home. CPI and the price of Soda Water is a completely mindless distraction from the topic.
That doesn't mean less plastic will be in circulation......which should be the aim of any scheme foremost.
It means less new plastic. And if you read the Directive, there are other sections devoted to reuse, and replacement. Look forward to the time when you won't be able to get a free paper/plastic coffee cup. Everybody will be happy then.
I agree. But somehow people on the thread linked prices increases, which were higher in previous years, to the introduction of DRS. With no evidence. I will point out price reductions, if this happens again. Unless they provide evidence to link price increases to DRS.
So just perpetuating the off topic discussion rather than ignoring it? OK, at least we know what we're dealing with. 🤐
Couldn't believe how much a person in Lidl cashed in with receipts yesterday on bottle returns, €190. She had so many receipts it took over 10 minutes to scan them and then the teller had to call a manager to pay out because there wasn't enough money in the till.
You might have a look at the thread title again - just to refresh your mind on the topic we are discussing. The DRS itself.
The DRS is NOT going to lead to less plastics of any type (new or recycled) in circulation. There's plenty of evidence in countries where some implementation of this scheme is in place that shows very clearly that the amount of PET in circulation increases - this scheme does nothing to change that. Do you acknowledge that?
I don't think "everybody will be happy" is a good phrase to use as you can't please everyone all of the time.
Sorry, I never got back to you on this.
There are plenty ways to inform/change policy at EU level.
We have gone it alone before and others have followed.
Maybe they would take a case? Really - abandon the Irish market?
Surely you recognise the the DRS in its current implementation is nothing but window dressing.
wow, you had to wait ten minutes on the till? did they not open another line?
No worries.
As I said before I am in favour of sticking with the EU on this.
I don't think unilateral measures would make sense in this case.
That doesn't mean that things won't change in the future.
But sure - it'll be too late in the future - it's too late now, many would say.
