It could be ugly. But it could also be a Godsend. England up 1st! I eagerly await the 6nations. I can't wait to see how we go with Easterby. I reckon, that a 2nd place finish with some squad turnover should be the minimum requirements.
I will hope that the union cuts ties with the coaches who are not performing, if our current problems persist. O'Connell has got to be under the microscope? They all should be!
Was good to see that the younger/more inexperienced lads (Clarkson, McCarthy, Crowley, Osborne, Casey and Prendergast) all had positive outings last night. We might not be where we want to be as a team right now but there was some green shoots from those lads getting international minutes under their belt in a tight game (and coming out the right side of the result).
We’ve see people bemoan not using these AI games over the years to radically experiment but the best way to introduce new guys is to slot them into a winning team alongside more experienced players.
looking at the game again, we collectively sh@t the bed at the start of the second half. It’s like we didnt expect Argentina to throw everything at us, and were unprepared for the work required.
Our pack were out muscled yet again. Indiscipline cost Argentina in the end with the YC.
I know it’s only the November internationals but i dont think you can say we are in an upwards trajectory.
No great shame in that as no team continues upwards every year. The trick is to minimize the downward trajectory , which is a combination of new players and new coaches with a new philosophy.
On Osborne, who has been impressive the past 2 seasons in both blue and green, where is he going to get his starts ?
It's hardly novel stuff for an 8 to run crash ball into a 10. He slowed him enough for him to be brought down - I wouldn't call it being steamrolled.
He could have been accused of shying away from the physical side of the game a year ago, but he's massively improved there.
Top class pace no, but plenty enough for a 10. He has an odd enough gait alright, but it mostly just makes his speed a bit more deceptive. He's the tallest back by a pretty significant margin.
Osborne has had some injury problems, and has still managed 53 games for Leinster (83% of which - 44 games) were starts. He’s 22 years old. There isn’t a 22 year old anywhere in Irish rugby who comes close to that. He started the Champions Cup final last season (and all the knock outs leading to it). One of our other centres is almost always injured.
This faux concern about Osborne’s starts is way overblown, he’s had huge exposure already.
of the squad last night, who could we state is on an upwards trajectory (haven’t reached their ceiling )and who could we say are at their peak and of course who could we say are past their peak ?
Base don the two matches this season
On Upwards trajectory of ability> Crowley, Prendergast, Clarkson, Baird, Casey, McCarthy, Osborne
At peak of their abilities > Bealham, Porter, JPG, Ringrose, Beirne, JDF, Doris, Hansen, Keenan
Downward trend > Ryan, Kelleher, Henshaw, Lowe, POM, Herring, Healy,
Of course Above is totally subject , and can change over the next 2 matches.
Most likely a useless exercise but hey its a lazy saturday morning
There’s no basis for saying the 26 year Ronan Kelleher - rushed back from injuries for this game and was largely very good last night (lineout issues aside, and they aren’t all on him) is on a downward trend of his abilities. Same with James Ryan and Robbie Henshaw, both of whom were very good last night.
Hansen is 26, doubt he is at his peak yet, had an injury prior to November after nearly a season off
Same age as Kelleher who has come back from injury with no game time and thrown into two internationals
Not sure how you are again making a call on Herring who has no mins of rugby apart from two sub appearances
Not sure what you are basing this on? If last night then the whole thing is questionable , if it’s the season so far how are you making a call on players who haven’t really played at all?
I really don’t like Beirne at 6, he’s nowhere near as good as he is in the second row.
Personally, I would drop Ryan to the bench, move Beirne back to the row and play an actual 6. But it can’t be POM. Who does that leave, is Izuchukwu the only other fit option there? Can Prendergast play 6?
He's basing it off the narrative the media are trying to create…the comments he's written arent even authentic.
I mean, he's 34 and out of the 23 absent injuries. He's probably on the back end of his career alright.
I would drop McCarthy before Ryan personally. He can be more impactful, but Ryan is far more consistent and while he's not as big he knows how to use it better.
I definetly would like Izuchukwuu to get look in at 6 over the next 2 games.
82% of Cian Prendergast’s career starts have been at 6 per All Rugby, that’s his primary position.
I think it’s a position we’re well stocked in - we tend to produce a lot of guys who are kind of too small to be locks.
For Ireland consideration we have Deegan, Baird, Izuchukwu, Prendergast, Ahern as options there IMO and I’d throw Dave McCann in the mix too. Younger options in the provinces include James Culhane, Alex Soroka, Ruadhan Quinn, Sean Edogbo, Lorcan McLaughlin, James McNabney, James McKillop, Eanna McCarthy. We have lots of options there IMO to have a more dynamic option at 6.
Sounded like a pile of monkey nuts to me so was wondering how they came to those assumptions
Virgin spent the whole prematch talking about Predergast and how critical he is, at 10 we have a load of decent players and backup
At front row is the problem area and nothing about Clarkson, the actual problem area for Ireland
I think McCarthy has more dog in him than Ryan, he is prone to some real thick penalties but I think overall he’s more beneficial to the team than Ryan. McCarthy is our enforcer.
faux concern
the comments he's written arent even authentic.
Mod: Folks, can we please discuss the topics without questioning posters motives.
The real problem area is the other side of the scrum. We desperately need some LHPs to emerge.
Hoping Jack Boyle is on the bench next weekend.
It is, were going to hear this nonsense every time Ireland lose a game for the next year so get used to it, you wont hear this same crap said about SA if/when they lose a game despite having a similar W/L record to Ireland this year despite their squad being over 1 year older…no consistency.
yea but I meant options that are in camp and have a chance of being picked. Prendergast or Izuchukwu, I don’t mind which.
Suspect we’ll see changes for Fiji either way.
Agreed, one or other of Izzy or Prendergast at 6 for Aus for me. Mght come down to who goes better next week? Been impressed with Prendergast this season, and has stepped up into the captaincy really well.
I reckon there’s a decent chance it’ll be Casey and Frawley anyways.
God I hope not.
I don't necessarily think Frawley is a bad option off the bench - last week notwithstanding - but Prendergast is just a better flyhalf.
This is ridiculous. Ireland were poor for two games and there is plenty of legitimate worry.
ROC suggested the plan was to start Frawley last night, but his NZ performance changed that plan.
My thinking now is, they may still want to give Frawley a start this window. That would make sense vs Fiji now, I think, and then back to Crowley and Prendergast vs Aus. That'd give Frawley his start and Prendergast 3 bench appearances this window.
My early prediction for the Fiji squad:
(15-9,1-8):
Osborne, Nash, Ringrose, McCloskey, Stockdale, Frawley, Casey, Porter, Kelleher, O’Toole (if fit), McCarthy, Henderson, Izuchukwu, Van der Flier, Doris.
Reps: G McCarthy, Boyle, Clarkson, Ryan, C Prendergast, Murray, S Prendergast, Hansen.
Here's what I'd like to see vs Aus (pre anyone next week playing a blinder)
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Keenan/Osborne back three with the way the kicking rules are now.
Yeah I get the logic, but the plan was to start him against Argentina for a reason - they need to see him there against a legit opponent from the start. I'm just not sure you end up learning much of anything starting him against Fiji and it is a better opportunity for Prendergast (who I assume was in line to start this in the pre-AI plan).
3 bench appearances wouldn't be the worst obviously, but much like they wanted to see him run the week on the EI tour, I'd rather see him as the starter for an international for a week.
Obviously this is hugely influenced by the fact I think Prendergast is simply already a better 10 than Frawley.
he is a hooker and plenty have played well later in career
Mod Edit
Warning issued.
