The more I think about it, I realise it does make more sense to have one type for the IC fleet, and the benifits of having a second IC type are outweighed by the drawbacks. Having just one type would make ordering, commissioning, and maintaining the fleet much easier. I also didn't considerer that most IC services use the section from Heuston to Portarlington, meaning they should all be 180/200 km/h capable anyways (assuming that is what the Enterprise fleet is capable of).
In that case I would assume the outer commuters (especially the Kildare line and Dundalk services) should also use the same sets? Maybe just a HC interior? I think that is more or less what they do now with the Kildare line commuters but I would hope with speed improvements they would continue that, especially for the northern line commuters.
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Has NIR given any indication of intentions locomotive wise, specifically with respect to the 111s?
Yes, I get where you are coming from, but there is already a split between the ICR’s and the loco hauled fleet and freight. Really you would be just moving where the split is, to between all passenger trains being MU, while freight is obviously loco hauled. It feels like a more natural split. In the long term I could even see the new train model being used for the enterprise (and Mark4 replacement) forming the eventual basis for a future long term replacement for the ICRs. So in the very long term all intercity trains end up being the same rolling stock or at least some variants of the same.
I would be surprised if they select a loco as well. I think an MU makes more sense, and generally they appear to be what is available and what so many rolling stock manufacturers are designing.
The main reason I could see them selecting a loco is if they wanted to try and keep rolling stock as standardised as possible, however I think even IE will draw the line at continuing to use the same locos for main line IC and freight. Especially after the AISRR I am hoping they look into MUs capable of 200km/h, as even if the full speeds cant be taken advantage from day one, I think their is the desire for those speeds, and it could help push IE to reach it during their lifetimes.
They have cheap diesels. The 071 class. And they'll have 201 class when they are no longer required for passenger services.
ah fair enough. My thinking was if they are pushed to look towards greener options for the rail fleet(ie using future electrified IC line) especially as they are really trying to expand freight rail in Ireland. They might look for a cheap diesel and/or battery shunter to send around freight yards. That said I don't think we will see this anytime soon, even as various freight services are decarbonised, if they are concerened about shunting they could use freed 201s and 071s(if they are still running) as shunters.
When the resignalling is complete, will this allow speed increases on the likes of the Cork - Dublin line or is the main constraints left for speed increase the curvature of the line? I'm talking about the speed limit/Max Speed potentially being raised from 160km/h to 200km/h
I'd imagine that they will be railcars alright. I think the only reason why the Mark 4s were loco-hauled stock was that the 201s were still relatively new at the time.
Personally I'd be quiet surprised if the Enterprise replacement (and eventual Mark 4) isn't a Multiple Unit.
IR seem to have had good success with the DMU's and I suspect they will lean into that. Given the importance of the Northern line as a commuter line, the extra reliability gained from a xMU will be quiet important, at least ahead of quad tracking. A loco hauled train breaking down south of Drogheda and causing chaos with DART+ wouldn't be a good look.
Of course anything is possible, but MU's seem to have become the norm for passenger services, specially over such relatively short distances.
I would imagine that given the relatively small scale of current and future Irish Rail freight operations that train engines can best do the small amount of shunting required - mainly hauling or pushing a complate train out of and into sidings for loading/unloading. I think that in the UK, this is largely the practice.
What do they currently use for shunting? 071s and 201s not occupied with hauling freight? I would be interested to see if IE decided to buy dedicated shunting locos, hasn't it been 40-50 years since there were any shunters in service? Though I can't imagine we will see IE make a decision about future locos until its decided what to buy for the Enterprise.
the Euro Dual is capable of higher speed, but most of the models sold appear to be designed for lower speeds, and even then 160km/h isn't fast enough for an all-purpose loco. IE wants something capable of at least either 165 km/h or 180 km/h for the enterprise replacement (conflicting numbers from IE themselves), and I have a feeling they did that specifically because they want to make rolling stock only capable of 160 ineligible. My point though was that if looking at existing designs, there are options that better fit the needs of IE.
I agree, that's true for big container yards. But if you look at the likes of Ballina (assuming that electrification gets there sometime in the next century 😉), you need a versatile loco, which can do both train haulage and a little shunting,
Shunters - diesel these days but battery could be the future, and reversing a rake so that the container flats or pockets are out of OHLE but the loco isn't, are the standard ways of handling that in places that have proper rail freight volumes and OHLE
Looking at the way things are going all over Europe, I would imagine that passenger operations will become 100%MU, and in nearly all cases 100%EMU in the long run. In Ireland that will incluse Cork-Dublin-Belfast. So locomotives will be for freight and other non-passenger work, and in that case 120 kph should be sufficient.
Even in a comprehensively electrified netweok, you will need limited battery power to cope with container terminals. (try lifting and stacking containers with 25kv OHLE all around!)
I'm guessing the class 99 is effectively just a configuration option of the Euro Dual (as opposed to some bespoke Euro Dual design), the Stadler website says that loco has a top speed of 160km/h. I'm sure it could be configured more to suit Irish Rail operations.
6 axles, while allowing lower axle weights on heavy locomotives, are used more for freight and are rarely operated on high speed service - I think the longer trucks create more track wear around curves. Metra in Chicago acquired some refurbed 6 axle freight locos (SD70MACH) for hauling commuter trains and some US rail fans almost needed fainting couches.
GO Transit in Toronto is to implement ETCS Level 2, but leaving provision for long blocks to allow permit non-equipped freights and intercity to operate through that territory. I assume that similar provision will be made to allow NIR and heritage train movements in the IE system implementation - I assume this project is not cross border?
Looking at some of the specs the class 99 might not be ideal as an all-purpose loco as IE seems to like so much. Mainly it just seems too slow (120km/h top speed) and it doesn't appear to be designed for passenger services. However, if they decide to use different locos for passenger and freight services (or if they shifted all pasenger services to MUs) I think the Class 99 would be a very good option.
With their current approach I think something more like the Class 93(or other EuroLight locos as they should have a lower axle-load) would be a better option. Especially as the 93 seems to fit the tender for the Enterprise fleet, meaning it could be used for Enterprise, Dublin-Cork, other future improved IC services, and Freight as the current 201 Class is. That said, we don't know what options they are looking at, though hopefully we will find out soon. What they pick for Enterprise will likely have a massive effect on the future of IE rolling stock.
I know this is "Irish" rail fleet and plans. But I was reading about the British Class 66 "replacement" the Class 99. It was unveiled at Innotrans earlier this year. It's a Stadler Euro Dual loco.
The interesting thing about this loco is that it comes in at a weight of 113 tones and comes with 6 Axles, so it could be able to run on Irish railways (given that the Original Class 66 is closely related to the the IE 201 Class and the axle load is 18.8T).
Seems GBRF have ordered 30 of them, main desire being to move away from Diesel.
If Ireland ever get serious about electrifying the main lines, these locos could be used with existing coaches without the need for a power car. although given the power output of these and their tractive effort it could be complete over kill.
Launch video if anyone is interested.
Good video here from the RTE Archives to show how CAWS works. Amazing that some of this equipment is still working, alongside modern ETCS equipment, in lineside cabins now.
Union Switch & Signal which was a devision of WABCO provided the signalling
Its 1930's tech, it could support ATP like capabilities, it depends how the on how the train kit reacts to the codes transmitted, you could catch going through a red signal if you had a specific red code (by default no code is red)
A little hidden CAWS info is originally there was a transponder system fitted, when you entered a CAWS area the train had to report its CAWS status and if it didn't you get a red signal. If you already have the kind of kit fitted, a hard stop for passing a red could be implemented
226 in Carrick on Suir has its transponder fitted
In my opinion, CAWS was very much a product of the time that we were (to quote Mary Harney) “closer to Boston than Berlin”. It was developed by Westinghouse (of Pittsburgh) who had a facility in Tralee at the time. Moving to ETCS means that the equipment can be more easily sourced off the shelf, rather than having to do a custom build of an oddball system. Many of the single track lines were never equipped with CAWS either (the so-called mini-CTC lines), so ETCS should allow in-cab signalling to work on these lines.
commonality of equipment, parts and software as well most probably.
possibly allows for greater competition within the EU in terms of suppliers too.
not necessarily a network benefit, but I think it could also mean future fleets can be more off-the-shelf. It might save time and money in the future when ordering new units?
Benefits? Safety for a start, especially on those parts of the network without real train protection, i.e outside the CAWS area. This is more important now as the network is carrying far more traffic. Second, as far as I am aware, the existing ATP on the DART lines is very basic and restrictive, as is evident from the very slow crawl when a DART train approaches a red signal.
At present we have a mixture of protection systems, some of them 40 years old, which is prpbably a recipe for high maintenance costs and less than ideal reliability.
Aside from being an EU mandated upgrade, what actual benefits will ETCS have for the network? Higher capacity potential…?
ETCS L1 is an overlay on existing signalling so same block sections remain
Will ETCS still require blocked sections on single lines?
Limerick - Limerick Junction & Mallow - Hazelhatch already have cab signalling fitted so the cost/risk benefit is lowest. The CRR is pushing for a TPS where there is no current TPS at all, i.e the mini CTC single track routes.
Nenagh and Waterford Rosslare is legacy ETS but within that the old fashioned must have the correct token to move is extremely effective and the low traffic density is a factor, i.e what odds you will hit something
