Let's all meet for pints 2mor night & trash it out 😁
It's a real pub type debate tbh.
not true though. Guys like Johnny Wilkinson, bod, etc do have name recognition beyond rugby. Similar to GAA players, you have incredible players who wouldn’t be known beyond the faithful but then a handful transcend that status. Stars in the game, superstars once you get beyond it. Tiger Woods is an another example from another sport, the Williams sisters, messi, etc.
I think you vastly overestimate how much the likes of BOD or Wilkinson have escaped the rugby bubble outside of their home country. Neither are on even remotely the same plane as Woods or Williams.
It's also clearly still not what Holland meant. This is your definition (and I strongly dispute it) but clearly not what the discussion was about. Holland just means there isn't an outstanding generational player carrying the team but instead everyone is on a similar level.
Dupont hasn’t played an international in nearly 2 years so he might as well be retired
???
The World Cup (featuring Dupont) was a year ago, and Dupont is in the France team for this weekend. In between he won a club double and Olympic gold.
This is a mad discussion.
Good idea but I was thinking of going to a rugby match. Suppose I could just watch it in the pub instead 😆
Dupont and PSDT are alone among the Gods of rugby Mt Olympus. No one else in that realm.
I sometimes forget how explicit you need to be on boards. The Williams sisters are famous RELATIVE to other tennis players, it is an EXAMPLE of how some athletes transcend their own sports. Rugby is a tiny niche sport in a small number of countries, you don’t need to be Taylor swift to be a superstar RELATVE to the sport. Literally no one in China or the USA has ever heard of Lomu. Anyone who enjoys name recognition beyond the sport is a superstar in rugby terms, and there are very few of them. Wilko is one of there are any. I don’t think Holland is speaking about plays who are in the top few in their position as Ireland undoubtedly have several of those. If he means that then he’s trolling.
Outside of Jonah Lomu I don't know any rugby player you could say was or is close to a household name. Even Lomu wouldn't be in the same hemisphere as the likes of Ali, Jordan, Woods etc.
I am fully aware what you mean thanks, I just think you are wrong. Wilkinson is known in England cause he won the World Cup but beyond that he's just another well known player in a niche sport. The man has never once tried to expand beyond that either. BOD is well known in rugby and a personality in Ireland and the Home Nations to a degree. There is no one, and there never has been anyone, in rugby that would fulfil your description of superstar - relative to the sport or otherwise. However I don't think it's possible to create criteria around fame that would include BOD and Wilkinson but exclude e.g. Siya Kolisi.
Holland clearly means neither of the things you suggest anyway. He just means Ireland is not reliant on one player significantly better than the rest of the team and that there is no clear lynchpin of the side that everything revolves around. You could not have said that a year ago with Sexton there for example. Why on earth would Holland care at all or pass comment on how well known someone is in non-sports watching circles as a criteria for anything.
Are you mixing Jack Boyle up with Paul Boyle? You have him down as a backrower.
Senz radio in NZ aren't holding back on their hatred for Ireland. Said the SA rivalry is one of respect but one of hatred with Ireland. Said Irish fans, media and team are all cocky and arrogant. The presenter from the breakdown doesn't hold back on radio she can't stand the Irish lol they even start mocking the accent which is racist if you do it to other but not the Irish for some reason. Scott Robinson will really want to win this.it's probably the most important game for kiwis so will have a huge factor in how his first season is judged.
That station is always full of hate and controversial comments for whoever is New Zealand's next opponent.
....
The likes of Sebastian Chabal would be a superstar in that case, which doesn't seem right.
Ilona Maher is maybe the biggest superstar currently playing, ahead of Kolisi.
maybe you’re right and Goodman is referring to a particularly influential player like sexton but why would he use ‘superstar’. It’s a very unrugby term to use to describe a player like that. I can’t actually think of any test team currently that relies on any one player in that way.
I think the following back and fourth discussion shows just how stupid this superstar argument is.
The world XV team of the year Ireland had the joint most of any nation and in total Ireland have had the most players nominated for XV of the year of any nation since 2021 when World Rugby started nominating a team of the year.
They really are a waste of life honestly.
I know those bone heads are bright enough to see it but Ireland getting so easily under their skin more is probably the greatest sign of respect…I know for a fact that a side I respect more than any I would be able to openly say I respect them…
Mod: warning.
I think the hatred in rivalry is because it's new. Theres respect for Aussie and the Boks because theres been regular losses to them over the years.
But 100 plus years Ireland were loveable losers. They recently got a few wins and their fans and media got giddy. And cocky. And that pissed kiwis off.
Those oh so humble Kiwis
Superstar? Had to Google her.
It 100% is the biggest show of respect how rattled the Kiwi radio presenters etc are.
We actually have the temerity to be good at rugby now and to be a regular challenge to NZ rather than putting it slightly up to them for 60 mins and then rolling over like they expect us to do.
Jesus lads, it's some random radio station literally on the other side of the world.
Predicting a score line of Ire 28 Nz 24
Tries from kelleher, VDF, Lowe and JGP.
Ireland of the past against New Zealand would absolutely have needed something special from Keith Wood or Brian O’Driscoll, for example, to open them up.
Nowadays the team is complete with solid players.
In the past NZ would just have had a game plan to mark the one player out of it that could hurt them, whereas nowadays it’s not that simple.
Its the same radio station that made global news when isarel dagg insulted sextons mother. If Irish times are reporting about one of the biggest radio stations in the Pacific we can talk about it here. They have hours of pre game coverage uploaded onto Spotify etc and tictok coverage. It's not like they are some nobody in NZ no one can hear or excess. They are global
Did they though? I'm sure you could probably cite an instance or 2 in podcasts here and there, but the Irish media at large cocky? My friends who are also rugby fans are looking forward to tonight but none of them are confident to any cocky degree of a victory.
It was exactly the same before the QF last year fwiw.
Maybe my circles aren't a fair representation of the larger Irish rugby fan base?
Do you believe that (in general) Irish fans and media are cocky?
There's so much content out there now that you'll find a podcast or blog or tweet to support pretty much anything you want to think.
You can post one link and say "look at how arrogant these <Irish><Kiwi> bastards are, I can't wait until <Ireland><New Zealand> ram it down their throats", and you don't need to worry about the fact that 95% of comment on both sides is pretty balanced and respectful.
I need this distraction today. Hope we pump them
In fairness, the Irish media has been incredibly cocky at times. Remember when no English players would make our squad before we were thumped at home? They gave NZ plenty of ammo leading up to the QF loss last year. Lots of writing off the ABs this week also. We like to have a go at Scotland for getting ahead of themselves despite winning nothing and the SH look at us the same way.
NZ will win tonight, post Sexton Ireland have switched off for periods of every game, we've still been good enough to win more often than not but the opposition hasn't been clinical enough to punish us. NZ will be.
We switched off for long periods even with Sexton in the team, can we not forget in this period we've beat teams on par/better than NZL.
Also NZL weren't "clinical" against SA, the only team they've played that of similar quality to Ireland.
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