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Independent Golfer Ireland

bobster453

350000 people in Ireland play golf regularly but are not members of a golf club according to Golf Ireland.

This is 57 percent more than the 223000 they claim are members of golf clubs.

How long will the 1 year exemption last for current members of golf clubs before they can access this I wonder.

In England after 2 years it was reduced to 30 days.

Where are these extra 350000?…surely has to include all overseas visitors who pay top dollar and only visit a few premier clubs.

What impact will this have on clubs?

Will it as Golf Ireland claim, lead to extra people paying green fees and eventually joining a club or will it lead to a race to the bottom to retain members?

Will it lead to the demise of clubs selling cheap distance memberships?

What do you think?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/arid-41395303.html

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Russman

TBH, I'm still not fully sure what side of the debate I come down on.

The way I see it is that there's a load of people want golf on the cheap and either can't or won't take up a membership, so iGolfer gives them an avenue into it. Then its down to the argument as to why should established clubs and memberships offer this avenue, when they've spent X amount of time and money over the years/decades building up their asset that people want cheap access to ? on the other hand, for a small club maybe struggling, it might offer an additional revenue stream if they run Opens and allow the iGolfers into them. I suppose I can see both sides. I can definitely imagine my club opening up the doors to iGolfers and even p1$$ing off a chunk of the existing membership in doing so, but can equally see a club that is able to get €10k hello money not being too bothered with them.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701240#Comment_122701240

how does it impact the club hosting the open?

Why give them a discounted rate when they can charge their actual rate? The impact here is lower revenues than they'd otherwise get.

iGolf members need clubs to let them play more than clubs need iGolf visitors. It's the clubs that have the power here, I don't see why they would need to undercut themselves.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701240#Comment_122701240

See… you get it

Miley Byrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701240#Comment_122701240

I have no issues with igolfers playing in the open comps or even winning prizes. But they need to contribute more than a club member who is actually directly or indirectly providing that igolfer with an actual golf course to play on

slave1

In the grand scale of things there's not that much monetary difference between IG scheme and the cheapest of Distance membership courses…exact same argument around being able to play in Opens whilst contributing (relatively speaking) little to home course upkeep

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701240#Comment_122701240

No its about supporting your club.

I couldnt be arsed about prizes yet i enter every competition, buy grub in the clubhouse, support club lotto, support pro shop by buying gear and draws that they run, support club classic.

Could save myself a fortune by not doing any of the above and just playing rounds without entering comps.

But if everyone did that there would be no clubs.

igolfers wont benefit any club any more than a green fee, regardless about the fake news from GI that they will progress to playing.

When they get used to igolf fees they will never pay to join a club.Why would they?

This has nothing to do with growing the game and all to do with tapping into a cash cow for the benefit of GI and prize money increases for the pro game.

And the clubs can go to hell in a handbasket as far as they are concerned.

Russman

One thing I'm genuinely curious about, if you're a 10/15 rounds a year guy, what is the attraction of a handicap and being able to enter an open competition ? Playing that infrequently, I would have thought you're probably not going to be remotely competitive anyway, no ? I get it that someone can have a good day and all that, but surely your golf will be more or less the same as just doing green fees ?

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701880#Comment_122701880

For anyone playing once a fortnight or more igolf will be a more expensive option. And they won't be able to play Sundays or membership comps or play on inter club teams or have any say in how the club is run etc.

blue note

The handicap says how good you are. And playing in a comp is the most real score you can have (before casual rounds could be submitted it was the only real score). But there's no fudging your score to yourself, no gimmies, no favourable lies, no telling yourself that you'd have made that putt if you'd tried. Your score is your score. And even if it's only 10 times you play in a year, your handicap (or movement in it at least) will reflect how you played.

It's very like your times in running. If you're only running once a month your times will be nothing like what you're capable of if you apply yourself. But they are your times.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701978#Comment_122701978

Will it though ? Like, if someone is a casual enough golfer and plays opens once a week from lets say April to September, 6 months. Call it 26 games for the sake of argument. Whats the average price of an open competition these days ? I don't really know tbh, would it be €30 at a weekend ? even if it was €40, thats only around €1k per year. I'd say a lot of people would gladly give up on having a say in how a club is run if it saved them €500/€600 a year in subs ?

Even at that, there's going to be weekends during that 6 months that you can't play with weather, work, life etc., so probably well less than a grand.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701935#Comment_122701935

As someone interested in the iGolf scheme, personally I would say it's to have a target to achieve. Don't care about open comps, or prizes, if I was able to pay a green fee and submit the score, it gives a competitive slant to a round. Absolutely nothing like trying, and successfully doing so, to get the handicap down.

Woukd I look for membership in the future? 99% likely yeah. Aim for club teams to give a different dimension to the game

blackbox

Our club has implemented an interim policy of charging them a full green fee plus the entry fee to play in an open competition. This will be kept under review.

slave1

Mute move given Open days winding down very quickly now

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702181#Comment_122702181

Will this ban apply to 'igolfers' from England and Scotland also?

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702264#Comment_122702264

It's not a ban. We are allowing them play for now.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702342#Comment_122702342

Apologies, will this pricing strategy apply to similar golfing categories from England and Scotland.

bustercherry

This is a move towards centrally mananaged handicaps vs club/volunteer managed like other unions worldwide. I actuality support this as clubs are powerless in doing anything against cheats etc.. Let the union deal with the nonsense and separate from the managementof courses/comps.

If clubs want reciprocal agreements with other clubs on reduced rates for opens, then of they go and negotiate. It will stop all this nonsense of I'm a member of Corballis and Golf Ireland, and the island needs to provide access to the course at reduced rates because I've a handicap 🙄

People are forgetting we have large amounts of non member owned courses. The committee has fcuk all to do with the decision on pricing in most cases, and they'll get their comp fee for entry. They can roll in behind course owners or will be new committees or clubs as ultimately they are powerless.

If member owned clubs decide different, that's their decision but I suspect will create a division.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702493#Comment_122702493

Golf Ireland have always known who the cheats are and done little or nothing about it, even when asked by clubs so cannot see how them centrally managing handicaps has anything to do with it.

The volunteerism you mention is what keeps clubs going in this country, unlike others where as you say the members have no rights or say.Few enough of them here, not the large amount you claim, out of what, nearly 400 affiliated clubs how many are not owned by members?..10,20 maybe?

Again i say its just greed on the part of GI and giving two fingers to clubs.

Be interesting agms this year i reckon.

bobster453

Remember Flexygolf?

Exact same initiative as igolf but closed down by Golf Ireland who now do the exact same thing.

Hypocrisy at its best.

https://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2021/3/16/need-a-handicap-flexygolfcom-now-an-option

Money grabbers pure and simple.

Only difference?...Golf Ireland dont have any clubs supporting igolf.

bobster453

Interesting take on it and right to the point.

https://www.golfcentraldaily.com/2024/04/golf-ireland-independant-golfer-scheme.html?m=1

paulos53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702838#Comment_122702838

The list of courses not owned by members is a lot higher that that. It is probably in the 75-100 range.
There are a lot of hotel owned courses across the country, a few municipal courses owned by the local council, etc. You have Carne that is owned by a local community organisation and not by the Belmullet golf club that play on the course.

big_drive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702894#Comment_122702894

Like something written by a 12 year old

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702369#Comment_122702369

In principle, yes. I'm not sure how they will be identifiable if they don't declare it. The numbers will most likely be insignificant.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702894#Comment_122702894

that reads as a disgruntled old fart who hates anything progressive - he should apply to the daily mail for a job - they apply the same BS negative style of whining.

Flexigolf is still available in Highfield GC (€195) and I believe they do very well out of it.

To prevent open competitions having bandits, simply impose a rule that all entrants who get into the prizes must be able to show a minimum of 6 registered scores in the previous 12 months or be a paid up member of a club

brick tamland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702181#Comment_122702181

Id imagine there will be other clubs who will almost do the opposite and go out of their way to attract Igolf members and will see it as an opportunity for extra revenue

coillcam

Let's compare with Scotland for a moment.

Scotland iGolf equivalent called OpenPlay is mentioned in their annual review.

LINK: https://static.clubhouse.scottishgolf.org/clubs/1000/uploads/files_and_docs/2023_scottish_golf_annual_review_rs.pdf

Key points from 2022 → 2023

Membership total was 210k for 2023 (small increase ~100 members since 2022, and was 207.9k in 2021 - nice post covid bump).
OpenPlay subscribers was 3039 in 2023 (38% up in 2022, and it was I believe ~1200 total for 2021).

They're running the scheme for 3 years. Overall emberships have NOT dropped at all but the scheme has grown massively. In 2023 OpenPlay lady participants doubled.

Clubs won't die but they need to be smart in terms of how they "protect" the club. There's potential revenue and new members from the iGolfer pool.

Ireland had 223.5k members registered for 2023 per the annual review. So it's largely comparable to Scotland. Golf Ireland should have put the Scotland figures front and centre in their comms to clubs to dampen concerns. The club committees dgaf about growing the game, they want their club to survive first and foremest. Then maybe growing the game.

If Ireland as expected ends up similar to Scotland we will be seeing memberships NOT dwindle while igolf numbers grow, you can surely apply logic that there's a market to tap into. If we had 1200 igolfers after year 1 like Scotland it's around 3 igolfers for each of the 400 odd clubs in the country. Even 3k igolfers is about 8 igolfers per club.

Think about the society golfers, there's more than 8 of them located near each club. Give them a real handicap and they may play more.

It's hard to lose a member to iGolf due to the stand down but surely you should grab the chance at extra green fee income. It's not mad money but income nonetheless and some members to recruit down the line.

Unless something outrageously wild happens, this all blows over until the next "crisis" for the 2026 GI AGM.

The death of clubs line is trotted out way too easily as hyperbole. There's no existential concern for Clubs, just get together to figure out your green fees and open day policies. We all know it's a surcharge.

Then move on and look at providing a better club to your members. There are bigger fish to fry in terms of day to day running costs.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703453#Comment_122703453

Excellent synopsis.

CalamariFritti

After my initial reaction of mostly 'it just doesnt seem fair' I'd concur with @coillcam. It probably isnt quite fair but it's small fish and it'll work out.

Bit blown out of proportion here by people either this way or that way depending which side you lean on. It's not going to revolutionise the game and give lads tons of opens to play for half nothing and stubborn clubs will start crying over someone waving a €20 at them the fkn backward bastards blablabla. And it's also not going to be a club's war waged on the feckless freeloaders who are going to destroy the game.

There'll be a few golfers who it will suit, some will like it, some will find out its hassle, some will become full golfers. Most clubs will ignore and carry on, some will charge a little extra. Most likely no one will talk about it this time next year.

There will be some clubs who will not like it at all, the ones who thought they could attract a huge distance membership based on the same principle. Leaves their idea for dead a bit.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703453#Comment_122703453

just get together to figure out your green fees and open day policies. We all know it's a surcharge.

Yes, I think this is pretty much what most people on this thread are saying.

I'm not sure if it's a surcharge or they just get charged the full green fee rate, it'll be one or the other.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703453#Comment_122703453

See they are real figures.

What scared some clubs was GI stating there are more people playing golf casually than are members of clubs so could see the floodgates opening and clubs being swamped by igolfers or losing members to it.