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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

MrMusician18

So after months of consultation and 4000 submissions, the minister for justice has sought and received approval to bring forward her bill on hate speech. Should the law pass, hatred speech will now be easier to prosecute and will now contain provisions around gender identity as well.

I don't know what to make of this to be honest. While it's good that people will be protected from bullying and harassment (as they always were?)laws like this can only have a chilling effect on legitimate debate no matter how well intentioned. Who or what website or publication is going to make the determination that their speech falls on the right side of the line when a custodial sentence could be the result of getting it wrong.

One also wonders about the priorities in the department to be honest. Rather niche stuff like this seems to be getting an awful lot of time compared to big issues like lawlessness in Dublin City.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2022/10/26/new-bill-to-criminalise-incitement-to-hatred-against-transgender-people-following-cabinet-agreement/

Mod warning 26/9/23

I realise some of you wish to try and turn any thread they can into discussion of trans issues

This thread is about the proposed legislation, not your personal views on transgenderism

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in thread

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corkie

Who voted for the bill: -

Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022: Report and Final Stages
Dáil Éireann - 26 April 2023

Source of screenshot Tracey O'Mahony on 'X'! ~~ Yes I know some posters think her a dubious character?

CatFromHue

Wow PBP, Aontu, and the Healy Rae's all on the same side!

tarvis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639012#Comment_122639012

It seems this announcement it not.c, as many people suspected, all it seems to be.

Todays ( sept 25th) Irish times reports that the transgender part of the hate speech law will be retained - people will not be allowed to say a ‘woman is an adult female’. Female is to be a choice and not a fact of biology - women’s safe spaces and sports are to be up for grabs and no discussion or dissent will be tolerated.

People need to be very alert to what could be smuggled into our laws by sleight of hand as this govt leaves office

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122652113#Comment_122652113

That is absolute nonsense! So facts are now "hate" because someone in Government has an agenda ?

We had a good run with the old equality lark eh ladies ? 50 years out of thousands of years of human history - and we're fighting the suffragette's argument again. Lovely.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122653047#Comment_122653047

But these ~~men~~ women will be fighting it with you this time, silly! More women, more power, more womens rights! Like the right to have a dick.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122652113#Comment_122652113

… but a woman is an adult human female, like thats a fact of nature obviously. Nobody can dispute that, and I don't believe that womens safe spaces will be up for grabs either, as there would be too much of a public backlash.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122653588#Comment_122653588

And don't you give them ideas lol!!!!!

corkie

Just came across this in my feed!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hate-speech-decision-not-a-complete-u-turn-and-laws-could-be-introduced-by-next-government-micheal-martin-says/a228082272.html

Archive link because of Paywall: - https://archive.ph/n5czD

As pretty much guessed and on the backburner for after the Election!

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670418#Comment_122670418

presumably the main parties will be asked to clarify their position on this over the course of the election campaign and voters can factor that into their decision, as happens with other issues…

MisterAnarchy

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1841475719278317967

They will try to sneak this in if they get back in, a deplorable bunch.

1800_Ladladlad

A tactical retreat and not a sudden discovery of free speech principles. McEntee has given every indication she would still like to ban so-called 'hate speech' in 'the future'. I'm surprised that a few people think this is being shelved. The bill is of course going to retain special protections for transgender and 'non-binary people'. It's all boll*x

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639663#Comment_122639663

I care about that part. I don't agree that there should be different penalties based on the motives of an offender. I don't care if you assault someone cos you hate gays or just don't like the look of them.

Penalties should be the same.

And 'hate speech' legislation will be brought in, maybe not right now, but within the next couple of years they will.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676928#Comment_122676928

So they've said it pre election so not exactly keeping it secret or sneaking anything in.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676928#Comment_122676928

They’ll get back in too. FG will likely make up the next government. They’re just taking a tactical pause for now.

1800_Ladladlad

And here it is… the order

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/1003/1473471-govt-told-to-bring-racism-legislation-in-line-with-eu-law/

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680765#Comment_122680765

Quite likely FFG will be able to form a government without the involvement of the Greens or any of the smaller left parties though, so there won't be the same push for 'woke' legislation. Could a backbench revolt defeat an attempt to revive hate speech legislation?

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122681071#Comment_122681071

Just reading that article it seems to be more about hate crimes, which I don't think anyone has a problem with.

It's the so called hate speech which is the problem for most people.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122681111#Comment_122681111

I don't know about that. the likes of McEntee herself and Harris are the two pushing it, particularly the former who never seems to stop talking about it - both FG

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122681950#Comment_122681950

Yeah I get that but if there's sufficient pushback within both parties, surely at some point hate sppech becomes 'more trouble than it's worth'? Like I say, if none of the left-wing parties are involved in the next government, ideology will be much less of a driving force behind government decisions, and there'll be a lot more wariness about legislation that could potentially aggravate FF/FG grassroots…

1800_Ladladlad

The bill is back next Wednesday at 4pm in the Seanad.

https://x.com/SenatorKeogan/status/1844392902442598877

1800_Ladladlad

From today's Irish Independent: Letters to the Editor

Helen McEntee is spouting ideological claptrap
Sir — Helen McEntee is going to push ahead with the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 in the Seanad.
While it is supposed to be amended to remove the hate-speech aspects, it will still have the following definition of gender: “gender” means the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as the person’s preferred gender or with which the person identifies and includes transgender and a gender other than those of male and female.
I believe it is an absolute dereliction of duty to vote for this until Ms McEntee stands up in front of the Seanad and explains exactly what this definition means.
When are we going to put a stop to this ideological claptrap and get back to reality? Asking on behalf of an electorate.
E Bolger, Dublin 9

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-as-election-time-looms-pensioners-will-not-forget-budget-2025/a1371953183.html

1800_Ladladlad

Tomorrow the Government wants to turn its back on reality and normality. Their definition of 'gender' in this Bill is their Trojan horse. This is the definition of Gender Simon Harris inserted and the one provided as a def in this legislation …..

“The Bill defines 'gender’ as ‘the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as the person’s preferred gender or…”

That is not a definition.

email your senators in the morning

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723074#Comment_122723074

So, you believe it's ok to incite hate or violence against people who identify as a different gender to the one society sees them as?

tarvis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723217#Comment_122723217

it seems those who identify as such have absolutely no problem inciting hatred against women who wish to retain their title and the gains they have earned over many years - womens voices, women’s restrooms, women’s changing rooms, women's refuges, women’s prisons and women's sports.

Clothing choices, drugs and surgery do not a woman make. It makes a trans woman - no more and no less.

Respect for their choices would surely be given, and was given given in the past, before they decided to stomp over the rights of half the population of the world.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723419#Comment_122723419

Really? Any specific examples of trans women inciting hatred or violence against other women? Maybe I've missed those.

tarvis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122708114#Comment_122708114

Pre new govt priorities???

chopperbyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723438#Comment_122723438

Must have your head buried very deep in the sand so.

https://terfisaslur.com/

suvigirl

Deleted

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723217#Comment_122723217

You are literally Hamas

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725208#Comment_122725208

No idea what that's supposed to mean.