Amazon WFH Policy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640905#Comment_122640905

That they can create these stats means it is tracked. That's it's not being acted on its what I've been saying all along. If you think seeing someone in the office is a meaningful substitute your mistaken.

There are also statistics that show the majority of RTO mandates are primarily intended to get staff to leave.

What's interesting is that studies indicate it's usually the senior people and/or most experienced, skilled who leave.

You'll have to join the dots on that one.

BlueSkyDreams

I can tell you that if 4 out of 10 staff watched movies in our office, it would most certainly be noticed; but sure, give it a go if you think nobody is looking.

Your constant talk of "if" productivity was digitally monitored is irelevant, because it is not digitally monitored.

Your one correct point is that if you are ordered back to the office, you have no choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641261#Comment_122641261

I know one person whose office went 100% WFH, they quit and got a job working 100% in the office, because they preferred that.

Where I am some have chosen 100% in the office. Guess the people in Amazon won't get the option. Well other than not going back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641261#Comment_122641261

Sorry I misunderstood your post, I would agree with this one. Alas my position and those under me can't work from home 100% but they can do some. If someone said being in the office all the time is best for them, that is what they get (have 2 like that) and almost everyone else is 3/2 split but some weeks it is 2.5/2.5, some weeks it is 4/1. So long as the job is done.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641063#Comment_122641063

My current commute is 3 hours door to door. I love my job but I am not young anymore, as soon as a job I like comes up locally, I will take a 50% paycut. I want to be more awake for my family, the days of my job being everything are gone for me. I am 3/2 split at the minute but if my boss aid it was 100% back in the office from next month, I would say no, I will continue fulfilling my role above expectations, and if they want to let me go, we will cross that bridge.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641156#Comment_122641156

Absolutely

Everyone is different and there is no correct answer to the question of whether WFH or in office is better.

But my point is that "forced" hybrid is bollix.

Why force someone who works better from home into the office for the sake of it and why force someone out of the office if they don't want to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640857#Comment_122640857

That's not true, you have goals and outputs, KPIs etc, it is very simple. I don't give a sh1t if my team take a 90 minute lunch to watch a Z movie on Netflix, so long as work packages are completed on time and if they aren't it is highlighted in time with reasoning.

Over the years I have seen plenty of mindless drones sitting at their computer doing nothing and idiot managers thinking they are working hard. Good managers know that being there 8am to 6pm in a 9 to 5 job does not guarantee a good worker.

My daughters old company were a weird one, they were really driven by metrics, it was an insurance company. Over Covid, my daughters metrics sky rocketed, as did others. Covid died down and they started to get pulled in, both for "morale" and training of new staff.

Within a month, they noticed the days people were on site lead to a drop of between up to 70% in productivity for some people. Did they give people an option, mandate only in office for training new staff, nope, they doubled down and pulled them all in full time after a few months.

My daughter left, same money elsewhere, on site all the time, but the funny thing was for her, she is happier where she is. It wasn't about being on site, it was the management style. Loves her new job, but my god, it really highlights Peters Principle in regards middle management in large companies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641063#Comment_122641063

attacks about mental health? Behave

And I don't really have time for this nonsense about declining a promotion personally but hey that's just me!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638099#Comment_122638099

In your opinion. In mine 100% WFH works for some, not all, 100% office works for some, not all, and hybrid works for some.

I couldn't do 100% WFH due to the nature of the job and my personality but 100% in the office wouldn't work either, but some of those scenarios work for others.

People in this thread seem to really struggle with the idea that what works for some doesn't work for others.

I know people who worked 100% from home in well paid jobs long before Covid and it worked for them, In know others who tried over Covid and it didn't.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/aws-job-cuts-amazon-web-services-ireland

I'd say most can read between the lines on this return to the office mandate.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/uk/amazon-to-cut-hundreds-of-jobs-in-aws-cloud-computing-unit-UNVNZZN2LVLSLFVWFAGB2BFXVQ/

I doubt this is about remote working.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640969#Comment_122640969

Classy as ever, Cyrus.

"Most" posters on this thread have not said they have commutes at the extreme end.

Not much credibility in making personal attacks about mental health.

"…57% of people would be willing to reject a promotion if they believe it will have a negative impact on their work-life balance – which was the top influencer of job satisfaction..."

Meet a lot of people these days who don't want to sit in more meetings, or feel promotion is no longer worth the trade offs.

Indeed when they tried to do salary sacrifice or block or offer promotions to get people back to the office it failed. So now it's the ultimatum of dismissal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640754#Comment_122640754

I’m not sure you do know how averages work, and a promotion is detrimental to your mental health, no wonder you want to hang around at home dossing 😃

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640857#Comment_122640857

"... 37% of Americans admit to watching TV and movies at work…"

The stats suggest people aren't being "noticed" at work. There's was even a fraud case that revealed someone taking hundreds of photos of their work screen in an open plan office without getting caught. We used to block the crossword sites at work in the early days of the internet so many people used to be on them.

The people you think are watching others in the office simply are not.

Ultimately you can simply block all these things from the computers then monitor productivity and output. But then you can also do this with remote staff. So that's a catch 22 for that argument.

Not that it's matters. if you are ordered back to the office there is nothing you can do. Other than leave of course.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640111#Comment_122640111

The stats are likely skewed due to fast rural commutes, and people traditionally understating their commuting time.

The recent case with wrc and WFH that failed was 5hr round trip.

Which shows that all the productivity metrics and new legislation mean nothing. A company or organisation can do whatever they like when it comes to WFH.

BlueSkyDreams

Again, you're missing the point.

They can monitor in-office work. Not perfectly, but they can monitor it more effectlvley than if you are working from home.

You can't watch netflix in the office or check out holiday sites for half an hour without someone in the office noticing.

Much easier to do either of the above from home and without anyone noticing.

Not speaking from personal experience here as I am not a manager, but I can understand why managers would prefer the office work in this example.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639263#Comment_122639263

My company implemented the same full return this year with no evidence of any issues in productivity. It was simply the ego maniacs at the top who feel uncomfortable not seeing their vanity project office space filled with miserable people

This is such BS.

Do you really think that the senior management of your organization delighti n the office full of miserable employees because they had some affinity to the actual building ?

I know it's cool and edgy here to beat up on management and go on about how stupid they are and how we employees are far smarter, but what you posted is just pure shyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640598#Comment_122640598

It doesn't make you right either. We all know how averages work.

All you're doing now is doubling down on your position that anyone who says that they have a long commute or can be as productive (if not moreso) at home as in an office, is an outlier, (or a liar). Well, you can believe that if you want.

And yes, I did actually turn down a promotion recently, as I now value my work/life balance - and my physical and mental health - more than a few extra quid in the bank at the end of the month. Something the pandemic opened my eyes too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640119#Comment_122640119

And the laughable thing is, there are those who continue push the idea that all this added stress is supposed to be "better" for you! 😀

The attitude to work Matrix can be funny one person said to me today that as long I'm one up from whoever is at the bottom of the pile I'm grand with that.

Yet one of mine always says they are not interested in going above and beyond but only want to be one level below that mainly for the pay rise and perks but they are also very conscientious about their work.

I was in a complicated customer service call recently and in the background, I could distinctly hear a child hammering on a door and calling their mother didn't give a good impression of the financial institution.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639459#Comment_122639459

You interpret things how you want to but that doesn’t make you right. Look at the average commute time stats , commutes of that length aren’t the norm. Just seems like most posters in this thread have them, hence the fear of a return to office mandate. Curiously everyone is far more productive at home as well, one can only assume there has been a spate of long overdue promotions in the last few years!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639895#Comment_122639895

The statistics on average commute times would suggest otherwise.

The threads are also full of people who think da management haven’t a clue, strange that. Yet these posters aren’t management but amongst some of the most productive individuals in Ireland, I can’t quite square it.

techdiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640119#Comment_122640119

This is it in a nutshell. If I'm forced into the office it's physically impossible for me to be as productive. Add to that, if I'm forced back in those 11pm customer issues an get fucked. That extra mile to get a release out the door, not my problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would think like that. The amount of extra work I do as a result of working from home is massive.

If feeble minded upper management want to ruin that goodwill I would make it my mission to only do the minimum of what's required for the company (without **** on my other team members) and I would encourage everyone else in the same boat to do likewise.

Let them calculate "the metrics" of staff who go above and beyond then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640080#Comment_122640080

Isn't that the truth.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639895#Comment_122639895

Yep, people don't include the total journey time from door to door. It's easily 1.30 to 2 hours for me each way. I can "hack" it by getting a very early express bus so I don't get stuck in school traffic or cycle to the railway station.

Then the agony of adults and kids listening to the phones on speaker or standing most of the way, especially on the return journey. And the panic of trying to get to a bus or train to get to work on time, and get home. Every ******* day.

Then 8 hours in the office. 9-6 (hour for lunch), 40 hour week. When I work from home I often do extra time because I don't notice it and I don't have the ******* mad rush to get out of the office and try and get a standing position on the ****** train.

What a waste of a life.

I'd even work 2 extra hours per day for free to avoid my commute. Hell it is.

That's happy path scenarios above, Oh, it gets worse when it rains, and when trains/buses are cancelled, strikes, ... I ******* hate Brendan Ogle ...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640043#Comment_122640043

Saying you can't work remotely because you don't have any mean's to monitor it. Is admitting they don't do it in the office either. Moreover that you've NEVER done it in the office.

They said a company doesn't have to justify it's decisions to staff. So they don't bother.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640073#Comment_122640073

What is productivity anymore anyway for at least 25 percent of roles, if not more. Lots of very fluffy 'work' out there nowadays.