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Child Item

LPG Generator?

Stigura

(Suited to here? Please move, if elsewhere would fit better)

Been wrangling this one for a twelve month, or more, lads. Got to have one of the bloody things. That's a given. Another is that I Kill petrol things. No more of that. I'm told 2K is the Level I'm looking at. I'm happy enough with all that. Yeah?

Now, let the battle begin! 😁 My current / Only reference, right now, is what Major Tom has on offer. I use that place as an easy window shop. Gets me a start point, like:

" Könner & Söhnen KS 2000iG S portable LPG/petrol inverter generator.DUAL FUEL generator 2000W,inverter electric generator with copper winding,with UK Plug Sockets overload and short circuit protection …"

Reactions, please? Good as anything? Cheaper anywhere? (£759.91 + £60.72 Shipping. I'm Not about to pay That chancer, when it'd only cost me £552.00, Free Shipping, to UK. I reckon a man could get it brought Here, for less than £268.63 😱) Know a better brand, at this price? I'd much prefer button press ignition. But, I'm just not made of money! What ever.

Oh, and usage? Leitrim. We have regular enough 'official' cuts. Four hours. Tree branch comes down? That can double. I'd 'guess' I'd expect half a dozen such, this winter?

Thanks 🙂

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Mr321

Yes to petrol generators definitely.

But a 2000w generator will really only keep a few lights on and that 2000w is really 1800w as when pushed above that itll trip.

An electric kettle would be the hardest thing on a generator and anything less then 5kva will struggle to boil one.

So you need to do some calculations of what Watts of appliances/tools you would like to use if there was a power cut or you needed to use a generator remotely and see what it adds up to.

Stigura

@Mr321 Had the twitcher going there, for a minute! 😁 Scared me half to death with all this Kettle talk!

Just looked it up: Average kettle sucks 3000 Watts? Dear god. I figure I'd need much more like 300.

Now, where are we, please? 🤞

L1011

Gas stovetop + whistle kettle for power cuts is a lot easier to work with, and probably cheaper immediately, than sizing a generator to cover it if its the only heavy load you want.

2kW doesn't go far at all even beyond that though. Time to add up what you need - or realistically, two columns, what you want and what you really need - to run, find their consumption and add a decent headroom.

Change all lighting to LED if not already done - a 90s kitchen with 10 spots can use ~550w depending on the bulbs and potentially transformer losses if 12V for instance.

Stigura

@L1011 I don't know how to only quote selected bits. So, from the above, my answer would be:

" I'd need much more like 300. " (Watts of consumable output) K?

You, again, obviously understand all this stuff, way beyond me. Could 'my' genny feed me 300 Watts, ye reckon, please? 👍️

The Continental Op

Get any petrol one you want and get a gas conversion kit for it.

Example https://www.amazon.co.uk/Propane-Gasoline-Carburetor-Conversion-Replacement

That way you aren't paying a premium for buying a gas only genny.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608819#Comment_122608819

If its more like 300watts you'd need a 12 volt car battery would keep you going with and LED bar light.

Or a solar panel kit that comes with the inverter unit. Usually around €400. That along with the gas camping stove and kettle as mentioned above.

If not then the 1000 to 1200w generators on amazon, screwfix, Irish garage around the the € 400 - 5 would do you

Stigura

Oh? Those things are okay then? @The Continental Op ? I'd glimpsed them and thought they looked devious.

Okay. That's an avenue. Once I pin this output / consumption thing. Thanks.

Stigura

@Mr321

" If not then the 1000 to 1200w generators on amazon, screwfix, Irish garage around the the € 400 - 5 would do you. "

😁 Now we're getting to it! Thank you!

Blimey, though! Four or five ton, Still, for a so much smaller one? God! Half the output, same price?

Hang on: Surely, if that's the case, I'd might as well buy a 'bigger' one, at that price? Better to have 'plenty', for ye money, than pay as much to all but struggle?

What am I missing? 🤨

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608909#Comment_122608909

A 2kW generator would be overkill for 300; but 300 is very low - are you sure that's all you'd need?

If it is, the battery suggestion above could be a better idea - as well as lights, you can get 12V power supplies for loads of kit. Routers, small TVs, etc. Basically work like a caravanner.

Unfortunately, good, stabilised output generators aren't cheap. I had a Lidl special from years ago, 600W, could run incandescent lightbulbs on it and not much else - voltage was so unstable it would pop power supplies.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608921#Comment_122608921

You start them on petrol then with warmed up to switch over to propane.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608946#Comment_122608946

Exactly yea. Smaller more compact way more expensive for what they are and like I said at the start only will keep lights on. For the same price again on top €1000 - 1200 you'd be up at 6.5 - 7 kva and could have that connected into a consumer unit if ever you wanted. (what alot of people have been getting done in recent years)

Stigura

😐️ Oh. ….. Bugger!

@The Continental Op mentioned the P word. That's All I need! 😬 Sure I've mentioned it before here? But; I am Death to All Petrol things. Greta's got nothing on me! My neighbour's at his wits end with me.

The risk that I'll kill a Gennie, which has anything to do with P? It's practically a foregone conclusion. Just take my word for that. It'll save us all a lot of typing.

Jesus. I mean, this is Seriously grim, lads! Oh: I just tried to find, above; I thought someone had mentioned 'pure' LPG ones, somewhere. Do They exist?

Beyond that? If everyone could just forget about stoves, led's and gas kettles 😄 I don't need to run a four bed family home. I'm good at sitting in the dark. Brooding.

Some of the stuff I happen to keep? They're not so. Labels seem to indicate they can suck couple hundred watts, staying alive. (Welcome to an afternoon of Bee Gee Brain Worm! 😂)

RainInSummer

How do you heat the house? Oil/gas boiler, solid fuel or heat pump? Well water or mains? Does your foul water need aeration and pumping? You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff that hangs off the electric.

FWIW I had a 3.2kVA that was fine for most stuff, but ultimately the power cuts were frequent and prolonged enough to make me go for an 8kVA petrol.

Stigura

@RainInSummer Good stuff! Thanks.

Again, don't know how Not to repeat an entire post. But; It's alright, I live in a cave and burn sticks 😂

Nah. Seriously; Power cuts, I can live with. (Monumental PITA, obviously! But, there we are) It's just my more delicate cohabitees who need their own little life support systems to keep going, no matter what.

Ye mention " 3.2kVA " and " 8kVA Petrol ", after the cuts got a bit much? That's intriguing. Would 3.2kVA about equal to the sort of thing I'm looking at?

I'm guessing the other was / is one of those monsters, in its own steel frame, possibly with wheels? That sort of thing? I'd kill it, anyway. Petrol, see? As above. Take my word. (Word taken? Thus saving us all about five pages of explanation? Thanks)

But, anyway; That sort of indicates there Is a point at which one is simply taking the rise, to ask 'That' much of a lesser size. I'm still trying to get my head around the motor battery idea, mooted above! What? 300 Watts, for like twelve hours?! Seriously?!

Anyway, ye verdict on the level to which we might reasonably push a 3.2k, or a Battery(!) interests me.

Thanks.

The Continental Op

If you kill petrol powered devices then Propane (gas) are really no different, just a different carburetor for the gas because (obviously) its not a liquid.

Stigura

@The Continental Op :

Only comparison I have to go on is Calor Heaters 😕 Generally keep one of those around. Likely barely gets turned on from year to year. No problem.

Storage is always a concern, for me, granted. Not so much space, as space that's not humid / damp. I'd probably make a little gennie an insulated box. Keep it in that, till needed.

RainInSummer

There's a few more moving parts in a genny than a heater in fairness.

In my case it's a beast of a thing that weighs about 120kg loaded. It has wheels and fold out handles alright. Be no shifting it otherwise.

Would a UPS deliver 300W for 12 hours? I'm so long out of that game that I have no idea what they'd cost and any of the ones I dealt with back then were the size of a living room. Something you'd need would be small though. Like smaller than a genny.

You'd leave it plugged in to the mains and it doesn't have moving parts.

Stigura

@RainInSummer :

Wow! That sounds like a Beast, alright!

' Would a UPS deliver 300W for 12 hours? ' Dunno! 😁 Electric and greasy stuff just isn't my thing. It brings us back to that motor battery again.

Then ye say: ' Something you'd need would be small though. Like smaller than a genny. '

Smaller than a genny? What, than a 2K one?

This bit: ' You'd leave it plugged in to the mains and it doesn't have moving parts. ' Lost me, completely. But, that's not an issue. Much of the entire subject is So over my head.

Worked for a bloke, once. Had his store on the yard of a Honda dealership. Spotted a small genny in the window, one day. Said; " That'll come in handy. ", went in and bought it. Just like that. I sort of thought it wasn't so complicated 😐️

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610092#Comment_122610092

A UPS is, basically, a car battery with an inverter attached. Lots of them are 24V internally rather than the 12V of a car battery; frequently 6V motorbike batteries in series to get to 24V.

A high capacity caravan "leisure battery" might be 115 amp hours, which would give you four and a bit hours at 300W - there's considerations about battery chemistry, reduced endurance at higher draw rates, etc. So four batteries could give you about 18 hours… but that's €600+ again; and the cost of chargers, an inverter if you want to use any non-12V kit, and batteries do wear out.

Also, you are generally advised not to bring those batteries below 50% but occasionally doing so is possible.

Stigura

@L1011 : " €600+ " etc.

Aaaand, I think we've just heard the last about batteries! 😨

Thanks!

So; 2K Genny? We're not gonna get a perfect fit here, are we? We're only able to work to rough guestimates, largely. I need * about * 300 watts. Certainly for the odd four hours. Could be a 24. Could be four bloody days! (This Is Leitrim). Then, I'm sunk anyway. Just trying to do my best 👍️ (Want the gear; No idea 😄)

MrMusician18

I think something like this hyundai genny might be suitably sized though with diesel you'll need to do a test under I think 80% load for a few hours every 6 months

A battery system that uses Chinese lithium cells can be self built very easily these days. The added benfit of batteries is that you can buy cheap night rate and sell back to the grid at a profit so the system helps pay for itself

https://ige.ie/hyundai-6kw-7-5kva-long-run-standby-diesel-generator-single-phase-3213

Stigura

@MrMusician18 £2K's a bit out of my price range. Gorgeous piece of kit, I'll grant ye, 'mind.

What I Really got out of that though was that the monster drinks one litre per Hour?!? Good God! 😨

So, this raises a question I never even considered asking: How much juice Do ~ the much smaller, 2K output type ones suck, I wonder? I mean, taking a wild stab? I'd guess diesel must be ~ ball park ~ one and half a litre? Twelve hours for eighteen quid? 😬

Do smaller units suck less? I'd imagine they would. Waste of money, me generating enough for the neighbourhood. I only want c. 300watts. Not expecting to 'make free electricity', obviously. And, comes the time of need? I'd be very sorry Not to have any, what ever the cost.

Just a swine that we have to operate to real life standards. Standard pension won't stretch to two grand.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613311#Comment_122613311

One litre of diesel contains 13kwh and this puts out 6kw as electricity. In terms of generators it's actually OK. You'd put green (which is around €1/litre these days) in a genny so it's about €1/hr at backup load. I suspect this genny is thirstier at full load.

They have a nice 2kw and 4kw petrol as well

https://ige.ie/hyundai-2000w-portable-petrol-inverter-generator-hy2000si?g

https://ige.ie/hyundai-4000w-petrol-4-0kw-5kva-portable-inverter-generator-3210

Stigura

" You'd put green (which is around €1/litre these days) in a genny so it's about €1/hr at backup load. "

Well, That's a nice little rule of thumb for me to have in the back of my mind. I mean, in a scheduled, '4 Hour' special? I'd be laughing! 😁

Only problem now? We've got to This point, seemingly not having ~ quite understandably! ~ ploughed through all the above. But, that was where I 'explained' that petrol is off the table. Period.

Diesel, I was ready to indulge, just to see. But, no, I really set out to look at LPG powered. Unfortunately, I know less than Nothing about gennys. I started by looking for electric ones 😂

MrMusician18

https://shop.flogas.ie/collections/generators?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Ciy2x-wlvHJB4o0BP6m3r2OtUeOV4x41wmomJprjZTLGxB1q

The only place I can see doing LPG generators in Ireland. I guess they are not popular since they need petrol to start anyway LPG is more expensive than petrol.

What is the specific reason for LPG by the way?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615362#Comment_122615362

Only reason I'd consider an LPG powered generator is the longevity of the Fuel. Gas bottles will last 25 years or more petrol 6 months.

Stigura

" What is the specific reason for LPG by the way? "

Let's just say 'Logistics'. No One, here, wants me to go through all That again.

I s'pose Hiring one's a simply stupid notion 🙄 I was sure I'd seen something, on Major Tom's. Sounded like what I needed. Just thought I'd double check, with people who might have a clue?

More I said, more they asked. Further and further away the whole notion of ever owning a genny is slipping. And, we've crept from nifty little £300 things, up into the realms of practically small sheds, costing K's.

Wonder if I could convince my neighbour to become my genny keeper? He could store and maintain it for me. I'd grab it, to use it. Then, give it back to him to take care of. He knows about these things. Had a petrol strimmer for thirty years! 😲 (Witchcraft, right there!)

Know what? I'm Absolutely serious! Why shouldn't I be? Division of Labour, 'n all that. He's got the green fingers. I'm Roundup, humanised. Makes sense. I can't drive? I pay for a taxi. I'll pay him to not let me kill my genny!

That means we're back to the little Petrol ones! 😁 Much cheaper, widely available. Now we're talking! Blimey! Was getting right close to the old Dark Night of the Soul, there. Genny was slipping away!

Right; Thank You All, Gentlemen 👍️ Crisis averted.

I'll put this one on a back boiler, for the minute. Be looking at them with a whole new eye now! Excellent!

Stigura

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615624#Comment_122615624

The very core of my problem, Op! I have a bottle of gas here, somewhere. Petrol though? Urrgh! I don't even want to go there again! 😂

The Continental Op

If storing fuel long term ready for an outage then you could get Aspen fuel to start it and then run it on LPG. I've 10 year old Aspen fuel that is still perfectly good but they say it has a shelf life of 5 years.

Stigura

" I've 10 year old Aspen fuel that is still perfectly good but they say it has a shelf life of 5 years. "

Got some of that 'Fuel Saver', or what ever it's called. Double barrelled name firm make it. Never can remember the name.

Put that in my petrol Brush Cutter. That's been outside, since last season. Waiting to go down the tip. Had my neighbour shaking his head, that one did. Won't do that again. Got an Einhell one, now. Plug. Play. Put away. Suits me 😉

I'll run that Aspen past him. He likely wouldn't need it though. He obsesses over his petrols. Like a connoisseur of fine petrols. That'd make me a Petroholic then; No taste or refinement. Just chuck the stuff back 😂