I read the following article this morning. "From August, bus gates will be in operation on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay in order to restrict drivers from travelling through the city centre."
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/major-changes-to-dublin-city-traffic-to-come-into-effect-in-august-1610937.html
The quays have always been a pain in the a$$ to use, no matter the time of day… So, how will this effect people?
Can this legally be enforced?
On road links crossing the river to the West, probably not at all feasible but there's access for service vehicles off Porterstown Road (and a service vehicle depot?). Could this possibly be remodelled to allow public transport access (barrier controls at Porterstown Rd), thus linking the N4/Liffey Valley to Coolimine, Blanch and beyond? I've no idea what engineering works this would require!!
Back on topic, the bus gates were being very well observed today. I crossed O'Connell Bridge a couple of times and cycled down Aston Quay from Westmoreland St on the way home. No cars broke the rules that I saw.
An unfortunate downside of the bus gate is that taxis on Aston Quay now move very fast. Not nice when you're navigating the cratered road on a bike!
Forget it. You will not get free flowing buses to the M50 via porterstown road. By microscopy mindlessly linking all these roads together it's become a rat run with way too much traffic for the size of the road. Theres even a petition due to the accidents. In terms of public transport. It's turned into gridlock at both ends due to the poor planning.
https://www.change.org/p/install-traffic-calming-on-porterstown-road
And it will get worse with major apartments complexes being built nearby, coolmine bridge closing, porterstown bridge closing and clonsilla bridge, Kellystown being built.
All this traffic has no where to go and a lot of it will come down Dr Troy bridge and also porterstown road.
If this route is something you're hoping to use a lot in the future I'd rethink your plans.
The solution was/is rail metro west. Roads are just not too be able deal with what's coming.
The bus gates are a realisation of that future.
What would the issue be with enforcement? Many years ago, I was in a queue of traffic in North City Dublin approaching a major, light-controlled junction, planning to turn left at it. Being the impatient youngster that I was, at 500m back from the junction, I took a left into a housing estate, followed by a right and left to skip the traffic. Immediately before I reached the main road I was aiming for, I was pulled over by a Garda and informed I would be receiving a fine and a penalty point for making an illegal turn - entering the housing estate was (quite reasonably) banned at peak times except for access to prevent it being used as a rat run.
There is no legal impediment to enforcement. Whether there's the political will to actually do the enforcement is an entirely different question.
They should really extend the central footpath median from O'Connell Street towards O'Connell bridge so that the pedestrian crossing distance is reduced and it limits the opportunity for cars turning back into the bus lane to continue straight. Below is really how it should be at the moment:
And ideally in the permanent case it would look like this:
It's likely the two-way cycle scheme is intended to turn onto O'Connell Bridge instead of straight to Eden Quay, but you get the idea. Think of all the extra footpath space. You could have outdoor seating, landscaping, reducing crossing times etc. I don't see any (logical) reason for this not to happen.
My issue with this design while well meaning and in an ideal world would be great, however a single bus traffic lane with the sheer amount of buses which will use this corridor is not suited to bus operations. (eg a bus breaks down)
Dublin ultimately needs some kind of metro or extensive light rail solution to realise designs like the one. Even if you took all cars out of the centre of Dublin city, there are still huge bus volumes which require to transverse streets.
Yes we are making that distinction.
How as a delivery driver do you not know the country is already full of pedestrian streets that allow deliveries ?
The original plan for Bachelor's Walk was to extend the pedestrian area because cars were meant to turn left onto Jervis.
Now they have this kludge because nothing much changed on Bachelor's Walk and it's only 7-7 but their need for traffic cones on the bridge shows, it does need some form of traffic management
The chances of a bus breaking down exactly at this junction is very slim. It would only be a single lane for a short distance either side of the junction. Beyond that you have plenty of bus stop locations, almost a continuous lane in fact.
The current quay width varies, but west of Bachelors walk it's between 10m and 11m wide. Create a 3.5m wide two-way cycle track, 4m wide bus lane and then a 3m wide bus stop "lane". That gives you 10.5m.
You don't need a metro for this to work.
Not much bulk going into or out of gpo now, but they can have the same access arrangements of available in all similar locations
A bus, bike and ped bridge between LV and disswelstown road would really improve the M50 situation. The M50 is choked with people in cars doing short trips, the views from the bridge would make it a mm attraction also
Car drivers pay towards the upkeep and maintenance of the streets and roads.
It would seem a little perverse if they were not able to use those same streets and roads.
The people own the city streets, indeed. And not every person in the city wants to see it transformed into a bus only network.
The Bus Gates proposal started out as a compromise between car users and bus users. BOTH modes of transport represent the people.
We will never have a situation where 100% of people visiting the city centre do so by public transport.
A compromise is fair and I think that is broadly where we are at now, as far as this proposal is concerned.
Exactly. There is no appropriate solution for PT in Dublin without an underground network.
That is where the priority should be.
Choking the city centre with buses, that ultimately conspire to slow themselves up, is not the answer.
How often do you see a Guard in the city centre?
For the limited time they are visible, enforcing minor traffic violations is the last thing I want them to prioritise.
Bring in cameras and fine poor road behaviour that way.
Car drivers are also the majority of public transport users and everyone is paying for the maintenance of streets, not just car drivers.
It doesn't matter what a small minority of people want, we have a majority rule democracy
This isn't true (any more than for any other central tax). Motor tax is paid into the central fund, there is no specific allocation of motor tax to particular types of expenditure
Metrolink is going to make close to zero difference to the number of buses coming up the quays.
You are correct with this assumption. I suspect there might be a reduction of buses on OCS. Multiple metros and luas lines will be required in the future. Unfortunately, we are stuck with buses for a while yet!
We will be "stuck" with buses forever.
People have a very weird view of the big cities in Europe. Buses are a massive and essential part of the transport network in all the cities with comprehensive underground and rail networks. People actually give the impression that they think Londoners all get the tube everywhere.
And that's fine because the idea that buses are "clogging up the streets" is only disingenuous bullsht. Same as the "do nothing till the metro" bullsht.
Nowhere did I suggest redirecting currently deployed Gardaí to enforce traffic violations. I responded to a poster asking if it was legally possible to enforce a particular type of violation, confirming that it was.
Separately, I queried whether there was the political will to do what's needed to properly enforce the law. I made no comment on how it should be achieved. But since you brought it up, yes, Dublin City should be absolutely blanketed with a massive amount of cameras for the enforcement of traffic laws. That it hasn't already been speaks to the lack of political will.
Indeed. In London in 2023, the underground accounted for 1,063,000 journeys. Buses accounted for 1,762,000. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1327715/transport-london-passenger-journeys-by-mode/
And there's still too many cars in London
No issue with the concept. But it would hugely expensive and it would be bottle necked (for buses) any way due to local congestion in D15. So it would have negligible impact on congestion on the M50 in my opinion while costing a fortune. Local amenity value is a different argument and wouldn't get the same investment.
My concern with all that is continuing to cover every thing in concrete to facilitate road traffic.
How long before the liffey valley green belt of strawberry beds and porterstown, Luttrellstown etc disappears under roads and estates. All filled with traffic. Solving nothing.
They can be as bad as we are sometimes. I can't understand how cars are still allowed drive in around Soho. I used live on a street absolutely perfect for full pedestrianisation and all we ever got was traffic calming.
You can see Dublin turning into a London like place. So much traffic in London.
The worst part of that is the had stopped cars during Covid and then brought them back and removed all the outdoor dining etc.
It is insanity - especially when you look at the actual number of people driving though (and ruining) these areas. Even on the quays, we are talking about a few hundred people per hour blocking the thousands on the buses.
Then its not, not true.
Absolutley. Yet there seems to be a strange aversion to cameras being rolled out, for whatever reason.
The Garda have argued in the past that they're not able to deal with the sheer amount of offences caught by cameras.
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/06/03/roads-policing-technology-can-help-catch-law-breaking-drivers-but-not-without-more-gardai/
I assume if cameras are put in by DCC , the fine goes to the owner of the car regardless if it was them actually driving
No, it's just a completely meaningless statement.
If that's true, then so do the following: pedestrians, bus users, cyclists, people who spend money in shops, smokers, employers, employees, tourists, businesses of all sizes, the EU, other states, and just about every person that has ever set foot in Ireland (and some who haven't)
