nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

Tell me how

This thread generated quite a bit of discussion back in March/April. This was the final post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024068#Comment_122024068

It's now over 3 months since that thread was closed. I think that's a reasonable timeframe for some discussions and considered thought to have taken place. Could someone in a position to comment from the inner-workings of Boards please provide an update.

Personally, I am interested in the following;

What internal discussions have taken place with respect to the thread
What do the internal group feel was the main points communicated on the thread
- Issues
- Solutions
What is the internal teams view on the issues identified? Agree/Disagree?
What are the internal teams views on the proposed solutions?
Aside from what was discussed on thread, what is the Boards thought process in improving the site experience both in terms of quality, and quantity.

I was concerned as the above thread developed that there seemed to be a 'Lets build another lane to solve the traffic problem' type of mindset about the site as in everything is fine, lets keep doing what we're doing but as a review and discussion was promised, I think its time for an update.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545201#Comment_122545201

Quelle surprise.

Smee_Again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545168#Comment_122545168

If you took that comment to be directed at you then that's on you, not me. You've taken a generalised reply to another commenter and personalised it and I find that quite interesting.

Perception =!= Reality

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545123#Comment_122545123

I'd say a case of just increasing if it's a poster that incapable of taking feedback or using DR to just go on a rant about individual users or mods.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545268#Comment_122545268

I've been accused of the behaviour you outlined in your post repeatedly on this thread so I believe I'm entitled to respond to that type of comment. I spoke for myself and others accused of wanting bespoke rule changes which nobody, including me wants.

The central point that you made, that some people want rules tailored to them is baseless and intended to invalidate the feedback people are giving.

In essence what you've engaged in is little more than stirring the pot and when you got a response you pretend to be taken aback by it.

Every post I've read from you here appears to have been written in bad faith.

Yvonne007

I think all I want is even handed moderation.

There's no point in pretending that it happens in the Current Affairs thread. You would only need to look at the Biden/Harris or Trump threads.

Any post that even comes close to saying something less than complimentary to Kamala Harris is immediately shot down unless a caveat of "but Trump is worse" is added at the end.

The Russia thread is also one where saying anything that seems to be compassionate towards Russian citizens is seen as being a Putin sympathiser.

The immigration thread and transgender threads again are hotbeds for people being allowed to be called anti-this or anti-that if they want to discuss legitimate concerns.

Now I understand trolling is also rife and should be actioned, but even moderately dissenting views are shot down or a pile on occurs which makes contributing pointless. It would be nice to have a grown up and adult conversation in good faith.

Basically, any of the hot-button topics which should and would have opposing views which are polarising are moderated very unevenly.

Smee_Again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545294#Comment_122545294

Ah yes, you just have to defend yourself from a comment that was neither said to you or referenced you (or any other individual commenter) in any way whatsoever.

I re-read the last few pages of this thread in case I did actually reply to you or say something about you but I haven't and I don't think we've ever interacted before. You make a big deal about posters taking pot shots at you, following you around threads, having to defend yourself etc but you've taken a generalised comment by me to someone else and turned it into a personal attack on you.

I wonder how many other times you've done that.

Smee_Again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545249#Comment_122545249

Something being "pointed out" doesn't make it true.

I could just as easily point out that it is the commentors who refuse to learn from their mistakes and adjust their behaviour that end up being sanctioned repeatedly.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545289#Comment_122545289

Patronising much? The reality is that the alternative route is followed by many. Just let the profile slip and register again under a new profile. That some choose not to do this and to make helpful comments as to how the site can rectify these problems is generally a sign of good faith posting.

But also on the subject of site feedback - how is that the site has become like Hotel California?

"Mirrors on the ceiling, the pink champagne on ice, And she said, "We are all just prisoners here of our own device"

And in the master's chambers, they gathered for the feast, They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast

Last thing I remember, I was running for the door, I had to find the passage back to the place I was before

"Relax, " said the night man, "We are programmed to receive, You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

It used to be relatively simple to close an account through the user profile. Now it's like getting out of Colditz.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545339#Comment_122545339

So when your central point has been refuted (nobody is asking for rules to be changed to suit them in isolation and you cannot support the assertion you made stating that to be the case) you turn your attention to an ad homenim attack against the person who dismantled your assertion.

Not only are you engaging in an ad homenim attack against me, you are using my previous comments about other ad homenim attacks I've endured as a stick to beat me with.

Next time you making a sweeping statement and don't want certain people to reply to it maybe you could outline who you feel should reply and who shouldn't, just for clarification.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545123#Comment_122545123

It's an interesting idea but there's already space for an admin to increase the sanction if they feel it necessary. For my part, I always try and explain as clearly as possible why I've done what I've done to minimise admin time and effort. There's also the PMs on thread as well.

As for charters, that's down to forum mods. You can PM them if you think there's something that needs changing.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545435#Comment_122545435

Interesting?

Someone proposes a rule change that essentially eliminates any form of dissent and you think it's interesting?

As pointed out already by multiple posters, DR typically results in decisions being upheld. So this proposal will just result in more ill feeling on the site and reduce trust and then traffic.

The idea that DR threads are a massive drain to resources isn't based in reality either, getting any sort of response can take weeks on occasion, DR's exist but they aren't exactly top priority or taking up huge swathes of moderation time.

What Emmetspiceland is proposing is a system where moderation has no oversight, granting a sort of moderator infallibility, that's hardly a positive step for the site.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545499#Comment_122545499

Does everything you write have to be this dishonest and disingenuous? Really? What Emmet said is clear in black and white. Mods can already change charters and somehow the sky hasn't fallen in.

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545499#Comment_122545499

I suppose if you were a mod, it would interest you to have a final solution to deal with people who you didn't agree with.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545334#Comment_122545334

There is even handed moderation in those threads. And I'm not "pretending".

In the threads to discuss a two horse race (Harris v Trump), or a war between two countries (Russia invaded Ukraine):

So if you pop in with a criticism of one side, if you are claiming to be concerned about point A, why are you only bringing it up in relation to X and not Y? So it is entirely reasonable to ask, but what about Y where there is ample evidence of Y being far worse on that point A. It is not whataboutery, it is about establishing standards.

If the poster is actually concerned about point A that is… because very often there is no real concern about the point, because any real concern about the point would see the vast majority of their criticism directed at the other side.
Instead we very often see feigned ignorance and disinterest in any consideration of how the point applies to the other side.

So yes, it is perfectly possible to post in those threads in a balanced way.

But if it looks like you've just popped in to "just ask a question" (and usually the loaded question is a MAGA or Russian social media talking point) … then you can expect to be challenged on that.

And it is not a pile on if you make a point and are shot down by multiple posters. Posters are free to engage or not with posts. I've seen posters cry "pile on" for making a claim that is easily discredited by a quick google search, or already discredited on the thread and then try to play the victim when multiple posters reply to discredit it. A claim they could have conducted some basic scrutiny on themselves.

The threads are not moderated unevenly. What is uneven are the objective merits of each side of the argument, therefore it is very difficult for someone to consistently argue a contrary position in good faith. Instead we get 'guerrila' tactics of overt or low level trolling, hypocritical or bad faith arguments, just asking questions, link dumps etc.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545123#Comment_122545123

How about before suggesting any changes to the DRP system, the absurdly long process is sped up and streamlined?

There is no reason an appeal process should take any longer than 48 hours from start to finish, yet some DRP submissions have taken months to even get a first reply...

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545506#Comment_122545506

The idea that having a DR upheld should result in a longer ban in all cases isn't reasonable.

There's no need to take personal jabs at me every time you respond to something I say either.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545529#Comment_122545529

Which isn't remotely what I said.

This is a waste of time, as always.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545529#Comment_122545529

Thing is @ancapailldorcha said the idea was interesting but the ability to increase sanctions based on a judgement call is already allowed. They did not argue for pursuing the idea. This more sounds like a personal grudge against a poster rather than an honest reading of their post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545373#Comment_122545373

And dispute resolutions also frequently has posters that are engaging in bad faith arguments. So think there very much are scenarios where increased sanctions are justified.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545572#Comment_122545572

If there was a misunderstanding you could have clarified your position without being so insulting towards me.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545529#Comment_122545529

It seems the majority of the posts I see that poster respond to you are uncivil.

Although your not the only one who receives it.

When a mod is doing it, no wonder others feel they can get away with doing it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545643#Comment_122545643

They chose to be abusive towards me rather than clarify their position and I'm the one heing accused of having a personal grudge?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545673#Comment_122545673

I'm definitely not the only one receiving that type of treatment, lots of other posters are getting it too, particularly stuff about peoples mental health etc that really shouldn't be tolerated.

I'm not going to sit back and have a Cmod accuse me of being a narcissist and then being openly abusive towards me while pretending everything is rosey in the garden and his behaviour is beyond reproach.

If that's what the attitude behind moderation on this site it's no wonder there's so much abuse tolerated.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545526#Comment_122545526

I think those long delays are mainly due to lack of mods on quieter forums?

There were suggestions earlier on thread to streamline e.g. CA perhaps as a trial.

Flaneur OBrien

Does anyone else see this thread lasting any longer?

I think it's done its job. Nothing positive is coming from it anymore, just personal gripes.

Unsurprising to see who is behind dragging it completely off topic to get it locked once the conversation turned to charters being rigorously enforced.

But look, it doesn't matter. None of it matters. We've not heard from management or the owners. The owner doesn't care. I'm sure boards is nothing more than something he bought a few years ago, gathering dust somewhere. It looks after itself and doesn't cause him strife.

To answer the thread question,

(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

Boards can only save itself if boards (aka the owner/management) wants it to be saved. Right now, it causes no trouble and runs itself. Why fix something that's not broken in their eyes?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545807#Comment_122545807

Was there anything positive? Genuine question? I think @Tell me how is engaging in good faith and started the thread with good intentions but it's not much more than a place for some people to spout lies and abuse now.

To reiterate, Odhran has not posted since September 2023, just under a year ago. He doesn't care and without more resources, the site will just continue to decline. I've no idea why he bothered to become the owner, honestly.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545572#Comment_122545572

You did say this though:

“Does everything you write have to be this dishonest and disingenuous? Really”

That is a harsh comment from anyone on the site to anyone else and goes against the whole attack the post not the poster mantra.

I’m not taking any side here just as a reader I perceive what you said as poor form and maybe I think I can now get away with saying similar to posters I broadly disagree across the site.

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545572#Comment_122545572

This is an example of what I said previously.

You did say that EmmetSpiceLand's proposal was interesting. So it was remotely what you said.

But if you were talking about another part of the post, it would be good to clarify.

If I was a mod, I would infract you for breaking the 'don't be a dick' rule.

It's that rule which I think the site might need to rethink as it hands the moderators far too much leeway to define something they disagree with as being "dick-ish".

nullzero

Close the thread before the mask slips any further?

Enforcing existing rules isn't an issue. Punishing people for disputing moderation in a setting that already has questionable transparency isn't a positive move however.

All that does is reduce trust and exacerbate existing problems.

Anyone voting for the retention status quo doesn't want to lose the advantages that grants them.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545838#Comment_122545838

And we're supposed to expect impartiality from this person.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545838#Comment_122545838

I did. I wonder why you didn't highlight any of the abusive comments made about me. Harsh comments are only wrong when they come from certain people?

Any time I try to engage with that poster, they immediately resort to gaslighting, abuse, and playing the victim. Always. I won't go on about this but that's why. There's page after page after page of proof on this thread.