No calf should be going into the mart ideally before three week but definitely not before 18 days. Yes some farmers will feed them well but a significant number will not and will try to throw a weak calf through the mart at even sub 14 days by registering a few days early.
We are going to be at 28 days minimum and ideally a weight limit of 55-60kgs within a couple of years.
What you posted about
"an older calf who has drank a heap of milk ,ate chunk of meal …straw ,hay ,vaccine ,labour and the risk of scour etc outbreak "
Adds a significant risk to calf rearers if the calf is not right which happened continuously with some dairy farmers taking shortcuts as the sold calves at 14 days
why would it sicken you I’ve gotten from 5 to 45 out of yard for Fr bulls ageing from 14 to 23 days ….it is what it is I loose no sleep over it ….most important thing is I have a buyer and they stay coming ….if I keep them for 4/6 weeks I’d probably still do well to get up to 100/120 euro …..I carry far bigger risk and loose money on them ….
A farmer doing a good job on 100 cows can be consistently generating profits of 80k. There is a huge tax liability especially where there is a second income, a lot of farms walked themselves into a huge hole after 2022 by failing to tax plan.
Companies are part of tax planning if you understand them and they are setup and run correctly there is no huge issues getting money out at retirement stage.
Companies are a minimum of a 10-15 year project.
Nobody on this forum can give individual advice on issues like companies calling them the devil's spawn is just pub talk. They will be absolutely the right thing for some farms and not necessary for others.
You are talking about different things.Tax implications of taking it out of a structure is a real thing but a separate issue. Some may go into a structure thinking that that is either so far down the line as to be irrelevant or that the company will not be broken up.
Farmers buying land and not only competing against other farmers. There are plenty of outside investors who just want to park their money in it. Or others who want to use it as a vehicle to avoid inheritance tax for their kids etc. And plenty of lads interested in actually working it will buy land with money from outside sources (such as a 9-5) and would not have the farm income to pay for the land, and as such wouldn't benefit as much from a company structure.
Saying that the system itself leads to higher prices is also a bit irrelevant to the individual as he has to work within the system as it is now and "advantage" needs to be relative to others also competing in the same game at the same time.
At the last auction I bid at, I went to over 90% of the eventual hammer price. The eventual buyer is in a company setup and in intensive tillage. The other active bidder I don't know because they were bidding over the phone. I would have been buying with money from outside sources. Without going into too much detail it was over 50 acres so it wasn't massive but not tiny either. I'm happy I didn't go higher but it is quite possible that if the company man didn't have the tax advantages relative to me that I would have got it for what I bid. Did the fact that he could buy on money that had only paid corporation tax advantage him for the purposes of that auction - as opposed to a system where he would have had to buy it from his personal income?
If a man with a large annual surplus from farming asked you "Bass, I really want to buy some land over the next 5 years. Would it be any advantage to me to restructure as a company"? Would you say "no, no advantage". Or would you say "yes, well it will definitely help you buy it but just be aware that the company will own the land and you will own the company, but that is not the same as you owning the land in many important regards"
(And while a company structure might be overkill for an average family farm, there are plenty of large operations for which it can help. Particularly over generations to avoid being broken up)
I'm all for selling calves at 2 to 3 weeks but it doesn't work out very well for me. I'm in a strong dairying area and my Fr bulls regularly go for a fiver. My Angus are often not much better. The lads in the mart can do what they want. No boat today. Up against lads like Whelan said that have their calves hidden in the straw for a few weeks. Calves on adlib milk Vs mine on 6 litres a day.
In fairness mine might look a bit bare at a month old because they are on a feeder but they are strong well developed calves.
Next year I might put the ones I'm selling on whole milk for 2 weeks and move them faster. The fiver sickens me for a fine calf though.
Not really any longer and time will prove me right. First off the land is not yours it belong to another entity. Secondly it's has driven the price of land mental so the lad in a company structure buying it is paying similar to a lad outside a company structure 10years ago.
Next trying to get it out of a company structure down the line and transferring it is a significant issue. Yes you can use the 750k retirement relief however that may not always be there or it may be redefined as a cash/equities only retirement product.
Finally if you do manage to bring it out of a company structure it may have to be in your own name ten years before you can transfer it and you have to be actively farming it.
Company structure in farming are the devil's spawn
Because when you're in a hole you should stop digging. Some people dont know when to stop and need to be protected from themselves
Of course it's an advantage. Not relative to the other fella also with a company structure but definitely compared to those without.
I dont understand lads with dairy calves registering them late and then selling them as 2 weeks when they're really alot more. A lad around here does it with chx calves, grand he gets a super price but he'd need it to cover his costs
Why?
what’s wrong with selling calves at 2/3 weeks as long as there giving lots of clostroum and best start dairy farmer can give them …..it dosnt pay a dairy farmer to keep beef calves /bull calves to say 5/6 weeks to get bit more money for them …..it’s an ego think for some don’t want to be seen to get 5/10/20 euro whatever but looks good to get 150/200 if lucky for an older calf who has drank a heap of milk ,ate chunk of meal …straw ,hay ,vaccine ,labour and the risk of scour etc outbreak …….
Where you after coming home from the pub blowing with your neighbour again about who was going to be milking the most cows next year? I hope it keeps fine for you. All I want this year is a milk price that can afford me a holiday. It won’t but I’ll go on holiday’s anyway. Life’s too short and the farm will still be here long after I’m gone.
what ever you think yourself bass. You’re just showing your actual lack of knowledge dairy farming again. I’m glad I have much more knowledgeable dairy farming friends to get advice from who have achieved a lot from milking cows instead of relying on advice from you or others who don’t know what they’re talking about. Any young person reading the forum that wants to create a living full time farming from dairy cows into the future would be fair disillusioned if they believed your posts. Unlike you I don’t try to show off or run ppl down if I don’t agree with their point. I believe I’ll buy land in the next couple of years and that’s all that matters to me. Your opinion holds no water with me when you don’t know a thing about me or my business bar what I post on here
It no longer an advantage. Basically too many dairy, tillage and the ultra large beef farmers are in companies so they all compete against each other. It similar to lads thinking stamp duty is an extra cost. Farmers similar to people buying houses as there home will generally pay the maximum they can afford.
There is investing and over investing.
Take a chill pill. First off you are butting into an uncivilised conversation. The second part is whatever about concrete I have never seen tractor jockeys buy too much land.
As an aside its you have left your business exposed to significant planning issues. This is probably the next can of worms farming will have to deal with.
Big tax advantage for a company buying land when the place is pulling on reasonably big income. That's the main reason
People who don't invest wisely in facilities and infrastructure are simply "milking" what they already have. Grand when you are getting older and slowing down towards some form of retirement. If you are not though then you have a lot of years ahead of you where you are falling a little more behind each year. That compounds and can make it harder to make any changes in the future if you need to out of necessity later
As long as you don't "overstretch" yourself at that start then you'll find that later investments are often much easier to make. You still have to be careful with your choices but you have to move with the times too. It's not a licence or a suggestion to spend stupid money
that’s an absolute load of horse shite. Spent a far few pound on concrete and steel here, cow numbers have gone up over 200% compared to what they were 10 years ago when I got involved We'll be a very good position financially within the next 5 years when a lot of debt is paid off. I could have stayed at 50-60 cows and spent nothing but there is no future in that for the next generation to get involved. I work hard but I enjoy it. I could never see myself working off farm to make a living along with part time farming. As busy as I am I’d be a lot busier at that and working with shite facilities. If you don’t spend any money improving infrastructure as you go along you’re putting the death knell in the coffin for the next generation if they want it.
There’s no money in keeping beef cattle compared to a cow. A cow will leave you 700-1000€ a year depending on milk price. Keeping a few cattle and selling as stores will leave you 200€ or so a head after 18 months work and expense
I had two runs to get the three out there, I wait around to carry them home if he decides to. He in not into taking advice when it's offered so basically I not digging out any further. If I push them I will get left with them and I could probably push them 50/head no issue. However risk is I do not normally deal in cows so I am not sure how fast I could get them into the factory under QA rules. Generally do not deal in short term cattle.
As well I only charge him my costs to draw the cattle, he did not offer to pay for the puncture and he did not pays for the last load last year. There was a couple young Belted Galway culls that needed finishing in before that I would have bought if I knew the scales were out that much. I do not generally buy there
It's hard to win with them. I have surplus heifers that I usually sell for 5 or 600 at weaning but I didn't even advertise them this year. I have 5 fr bulls and a small AA bull calf. Giving calves away for a fiver is just sickening to me. Might sell these few in April but I might keep them until july/August too.
Don't know what to do about calves next year. Lads might be more interested in calves considering the price of weanlings now. I'm on my own here and it is a fair relief to get them out of the place alright.
what did you think of your experiment of keeping a few cattle the last year or two from the springs was the return worth the extra work?
Best thing that could happen then is loan refusal.
This is a dangerous time of year for dairy farmers. Lads have forgotten the challenges of spring weather and of getting rid of calves. They are falling back into the sell everything at 2 weeks and just carry more cows.
It's good to have different opinions here from fellow dairy farmers and from other people whether people like it or not. Echo chambers are good for nobody imo.
I play soccer with a guy in the local AIB he was saying there’s an awful lot of farmers coming in for loans for feeding for the winter ahead
😁😁the honest truth
No problem paying bills, the problems only happen when the hoor tries to cash the cheque.
You'd start to talk to yourself in that case. Not that I'd know anything about that. Or walking along the farm roadway and saying "I must top that paddock" or "I must spread slurry in that one". Anyone like that would only do it out the fields though. In the yard your at risk of being caught out by someone. So they tell me.
Chief here farmed with no help from their parents. When we have a row about something and it calms down they would turn around and say at least you have someone to talk to here, I had no one. Wasn't easy I'd say
Same here, suits me fine too.
What stopped you pollng on the price ,worst could happen you would bring them home and get factory price if they were that far back.I always taught the deal with cows in the ring was when the dealer got his turn he had to bid on if anyone followed him or he would not get a turn again so you left the 400 after you
My one would just about stand in a gap for me of I was stuck. Never really worried me.
