When you look closer and ponder a bit about what you see you will see one of the bins still opened. Green enterprenuers are taking bags out of a bins and after searching for the gold they leave a mess behind.
The real culprit is idiotic scheme which alienated people to the point they dont bother and toss returnable containers in a bin.
We need the bins they have in Germany, with bottle holders for people to place the bottles in & that are external to the bin itself and are clearly visible.
This allows people to take the bottles, without having to rummage through the bin itself and leave a mess behind.
We probably wont get them for years though.
Not only that.
You are essentially lending your own money to a company which does not pay you any interest. They are forcing you to tie in certain amount for the time you return containers while they are free to use them as they please. While it is a small amount you should multiply that by numbers of containers and you will see that said company is getting interest free investment in tens of milions if not more...
Of course they want to wait. Perhaps they add few more months to that deadline since they get to keep deposit for 2.000.000 containers a day…
Out of 5M sold and 3M returned they are looking at nice bonuses.
Nope. It does not help with problem at hand. They will go after big bins where people put rubbish in black bin bags. They will go for it because one cant see what is in black bag and so they will search since they do have nothing else to do.
And if you think that people who put returnable containers in rubbish are going to walk to find dedicated bottle holders bins you are in for a surprise. If they dont bother to return them they wont bother to set them aside.
We are talking about household bins or apartment blocks bins in laneways and not on-street bins in the middle of a city.
a quango=state body.state money to set it up and ensure enough returns money to pay quangiis wages are in quango bank account on due date must mean hidden or disclosed top ups by Dept Environment
There are 33,000 NGO’s in Ireland all sucking at the teat of the Irish taxpayer. All with Boards of at least 6 directors, most paid, some voluntary (school BoM’s). You’re fighting a lost cause for now.
That's the Irish way. Jobs for the boys. Return is no different. Zero transparency only pie in the sky green rhetoric.
Too much misinformation and disinformation here. It's not a Scam. It's not a Quango. It's not a NGO. Stick to the facts.
From Chartered Accountants Ireland:
Apr 02, 2024
Revenue has published a new Tax and Duty Manual to provide guidance on the VAT treatment appropriate to Deposit Return Scheme (DRS) refunds. The DRS came into operation on 1 February 2024 and provides for a small refundable deposit on drink products supplied in plastic bottles and aluminium or steel cans. The deposit is refunded to a person who returns an empty container to the DRS for recycling or reuse.
Section 92A VATCA 2010 legislates for the VAT treatment of the DRS. Because it is not possible for businesses in the supply chain (e.g. manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers) to know at the time they make their supplies whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty, no VAT arises on supplies of drink products in the supply chain. VAT on the deposit only arises where the container is not returned under the DRS, in which case it is the Scheme Operator, Re-turn, who is liable to account for and pay the tax. Re-turn was appointed by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to operate the DRS.
But what if you can't return the item?
Yeah there's some misinformation on the thread alright. A lot of it emanating from Re-turn.
And yesterday you were claiming 'Not for EU' labelling could materially hinder ROI shoppers buying Re-turn products in NI. When asked to support that… you provided exactly nothing despite multiple posters querying you on it.
Posters asking about manual returns … somehow you directed the conversation to Brexit without cause. Posters asking about increases in prices coincident with Return being rolled out… somehow you directed the conversation to the war in Ukraine without cause. Ring any bells?
Stick to the facts indeed. The information in self serving press releases from the laughing jackasses in Return and the Green Party are not facts.
And you haven't actually said what Return is?
It is worse than a Quango. A Quango would be more accountable.
More misinformation.
Irrelevant.
I wasn't disputing the mechanics of the charging system; I said there has been a product price increase, where at least some DRS products are concerned.
The info you posted would be equally applied to DRS products, if there had been no increase in product price.
In other words, the extract makes no judgement on whether or not the deposit is added to the original product price, or is absorbed into the current product price.
No more comments from me on this one sorry, you either get it, or you don't.
Ponder all you like but I'm not buying that.
Two separate groups of people caused that mess in the laneway.
Those who trashed the place and threw the rubbish on the ground.
And also the the people who refused to separate their waste and put recyclables in with general waste
Re-turn is not a quango and no state money was provided to set it up.
Your DOE theory is made up stuff.
13 months. Pretty obvious what the plan is there. All kinds of pay rises, bonuses and goodies will be handed out on the 1 year anniversary of Re-Turn before any "assessment" takes place. Be some heft in the deposit kitty by that stage. 10s of millions of euro. Champagne all round for a job well done.
The Deposit Return Scheme will help reduce single-use plastics, help Ireland meet EU targets, and move towards a circular economy where valuable resources are re-used or recycled as much as possible."
If that was the plan, why did they not bring the deposit on to plastic bottles and leave cans alone?
Thats rhetorical question. The answer is obvious, the cans are valuable.
How is this facade reducing single-use plastics?
Look at any price display, or any purchase receipt. That will tell you whether the deposit has been added to the original product price. It hasn't, they are shown separately as the product price and deposit price.
Any accountant will tell you the same.
The bigger issue I have is the opportunity that the retailers/manufacturers took to increase either the base price of the item itself (as in the case of lucozade zero) or to increase the unit cost of multipack (as in the case of 24 packs being replaced by 18 packs)
These have all happened since the DRS came in.
As I have said, the easiest thing to do, if at all possible is to completey reduce the amount of PET and alumium cans that a person uses (which most people can do) and which we are trying to do in this household as engagment with the scheme in any way is costly in many different ways, financially, environmentally, time!
Outside of that specific issue, there are obviously tens of other issues with the scheme - all discussed at length here but none will be looked at or resolved till July of next year apparantly.
Lovely.
You forfeit the deposit…
Honestly, there are issues with the deposit scheme that are genuine.
People calling it a price increase destroys any credibility to the arguments and makes those people look stupid.
I don't say gas price has doubled if I have to buy a canister, I don't count the deposit as part of the price if I'm renting equipment, I don't say rent has doubled because I pay a deposit in the first month.
We were in Croke Park yesterday for the camogie, got the child a bottle of Coke, brought bottle home to claim the 15c. Rejected by the machine, staff member in Lidl said it's because there was no re-turn logo (on closer inspection, they were correct, there wasn't - but it did have a barcode)
Not sure who's at fault here, Croke Park or DRS but it's a curious one. As the GAA is an all-island organisation I guess they could be buying their stock over the border
This facade is not. We both know that already.
leaving Croke Park yesterday and there was a lot of empty plastic bottles left behind as I was leaving, that was just one small area that I was going through as I was leaving. I assume the cleaners are bagging these seperately and making a nice profit…at least I hope they are. Nice bonus for them.
Croke park needs a a few of these machines under each stand
But there is a deposit on every can and bottle I buy which I cant return, so for me it is a price increase. Why is this so difficult for people like you to understand?!?
all discussed at length here but none will be looked at or resolved till July of next year apparantly.
Sorry I have to correct you here, all discussed at length here but none will be looked at or resolved till July of next year apparantly at the earliest.
And I gave examples of prices decreases since February. But I did not link that to DRS, because I don't know the reason. I just wanted to show that the particular product I know about was reduced in price.
Have you got evidence to show that the Lucozade price increase was due to an "opportunity" taken by anyone in the supply chain? Did you ask any of them for an explanation?
The only reference I made to July (I should have said June) 2025, was the variability in sales at different times of year. DRS want to wait to use a full year's figures. The accountants agree with another point I made. Nobody knows when or if any container will come back. I don't have tens of "issues" with the scheme. I don't worry about stuff which annoys some other people.
"Because it is not possible for businesses in the supply chain (e.g. manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers) to know at the time they make their supplies whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty, no VAT arises on supplies of drink products in the supply chain."
whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty
I notice not only empties, but some full ones, and a lot partly full. It's a big change from the time when a "mineral" was a luxury item for a child.
It has been added to the original cost of the product.
If the 4 pack of coke was 6 euro before DRS, it is still 6 euro on the shelf after DRS.
But the total price at checkout after DRS is 6.60, 15c × 4 for the cans.
