It's oddly fascinating to see the many shortcomings in action. Charitably viewed, about half the machines in working order. A Tesco outlet where there is an unpleasant stench near where the four increasingly shabby looking machines are installed. A Supervalu where the various liquids ooze onto a floor leading to people avoiding them and causing a choke-point into the store. A Dunnes where the illogical positioning leads to a queue that is impressively disruptive for all involved, thanks to a seating area being placed nearby. The wasps near various outdoor units.
Tesco invested the money so its Tesco customers who will be paying for it. Unclaimed deposits go direct to Re-Scam.
And you will find that rescam as you call it will pay these companies towards the cost of the machines with unclaimeded deposits.
Yes but they didn't wait for that did they?
This scheme is front loaded with cost for retailers. Customer pays now. Re-Turn rebates come later.
Unclaimed deposits go towards operating the scheme-not towards expenses of retailers, or supposed to. CEO and board of directors must get their salary, they are not working for Not for Profit.
Do the maths again. Say a store has 4 machines, then the cost per machine is not €89K, it is less than €23K.
15,000,000 divided by 170 is 88,235.
88,235 divided by 4 machines is 22,058, so 22,058 per machine.
Handling fee of 0.022 cent. Multiply 0.022 by 1,000,000 is 22,000.
So each machine will have to process a million cans/bottles to pay for itself.
Deary me pedantasauras rex strikes again. 4,000,000 containers per Tesco store then.
In your opinion how are retailers covering the up front costs of Re-Turn?
I don't know, and I am not interested. But it won't be based on 4 million per store unless they all have 4 machines. I know of a Tesco with one machine.
Whatever way it works will be a financial fact, not a matter of my opinion or yours. Neither do I know how they are covering the €16 million for pay increases. Which will be a recurring outlay. Have you got an "opinion" on that?
https://tescoireland.ie/tesco-ireland-invests-16-million-in-hourly-pay-rates/
I'd imagine from:
Tesco's Irish arm posted an operating profit of €120.35m in 2023 on the back of several price hikes amid sustained high inflation.
As far as this scheme goes, if the "opinion" is that they are losing money on €0.022, then people with a grudge can hit them hard. Put all your returns in Tesco machines and get cash. Spend it in other shops.
It was obvious I meant average containers per Tesco store regardless of number of RVMs. Once again more pedantry and no answering the question because you know the answer and it doesn't suit your position. You should put in a request to the mods for a name change to dxanswernothing2005.
I'll continue to put my bottles in my green bin, while gleefully looking forward to Re-Scams downfall.
The average cost per Tesco store is 89k. That doesnt mean a store with 4 machines cost 89k. Depends on average number of RVMs per store. You say yourself you've seen a Tesco with 1 machine. Well then it follows that a Tesco with 4 machines is above average for number of RVMs. That store would have cost more than 89k to kit out.
Maybe you need to "Do the maths again." before getting on your high maths horse.
If anyone has seen a Tesco with 8 RVMs I will stand corrected.
According to the Re-Turn website the machines are around €12K each. We covered the sliding scale of financial supports available for the first 3 years to the less busy outlets on the thread before. Whatever about Tesco, it looks like Supervalu & Centra paid well over the odds at just under €42K per machine.
"For Retailers opting to take back in scope drinks containers through RVMs, the approximate starting price is €12,000. To find out more about RVMs, check out the RVM Supplier List on our website. Retailers who purchase an RVM and take back less than 250,000 drinks containers per year may apply for financial support from Re-turn"
https://centra.ie/news/2024/01/22/supervalu-and-centra-invest-eur28m-in-reverse-vending-machines
This 15m investment by Tesco is old news but it seems to be getting a lot attention today.
I've been out in the sun all day and my brain might be a bit fried but here goes.
Last week we had a figure of 3.2m containers returned per day.
So going on the fact that Tesco have 23% of the grocery market maybe it's not that big a stretch to say they might be getting about 23% of returns.
That would give them €113,344 per week or about 5 machines installed.
In a year about 260 machines. Two years over 500 and depreciation has kicked in.
Of course we don't have access to all the info we need but don't those 0.022s add up.
No no. We're not going off on a tangent safari now discussing RVM costs for Centra and SuperValu. Regardless of retailer the upfront cost of RVMs is being recouped from the customer as we speak through higher product prices. Financial supports for low container return totals are on the long finger.
Can you remember what they said about DRS in the notification?
Ok nice attempt but once again they arent waiting for that!
Are we going to get our money back in a few years for all the price hikes now to cover upfront RVM costs?
I think that is something we actually both might be able to agree on.
Another plus for prison life 😂...
In order for retailers to avail of the subsidy
"Criteria for meeting Financial Support •Proof of annual sales of 250,000 'in scope' containers •Proof of annual returns less than 360,000 'in scope' containers."
So, if I am comprehending this correctly, if the retailer does not have sales of 250,000 in scope containers he doesn't get jack shift of a subsidy.
Sounds like the IPS are a clever set of people. Pity the DAA don't have their level of smarts.
Lads would be getting the relatives to bring in A4 sheets of barcode stickers instead of drugs to them 😁.
Are you proposing some sort of rebate at a point in the future based on Tesco admitting overcharging you now ?
I'd say the chances are somewhere between slim and nil.
Tesco have better lawyers and accountants than us .
If you think they are overcharging just go elsewhere.
You can still use their machines and collect cash.
Jesus wept.
Of course not. It was a rhetorical question. The point I was making is its never going to happen so who cares if Tesco make their RVM money back in a few years time. Its irrelevant. We're being robbed now with higher prices.
Ok I missed the subtlety.
My advice stands, if you think you're being robbed vote with your feet.
Having said that shopping can be a bit of a war zone.
Special offers that hide the fact that buying less is better value per kilo, items put up so they can be passed of as bargains next week etc.
I can honestly say that nothing I buy in cans or plastic bottles has increased in price since DRS came in. But then I don't buy soft drinks (except tonic water) or bottled water.
They could also of course be edging non related items upwards and we wouldn't notice or make the connection.
Ah I do love this attitude!
Personally though I value my time and patience far more than I do jumping through hoops for the sake of a few euro. Frankly I'm not that hard up.
Besides, my current system of disposing of a boot load of rubbish bags (generally about 8 of them) into the local council landfill for a tenner every 6 weeks more than makes up for it, never mind bin charges generally.
Who's really the stupid ones though? Those refusing to engage with the scam and finding alternatives, or those not only jumping through the aforementioned hoops but trying to tell themselves and everyone else that it's a good thing!
Lets park the tonic water personal preference for this. There have been price rises overall.
Vote with your feet and go where?
Dxhound just posted that Centra and SuperValu had even more up front costs than Tesco.
So based on your quoted post above I'll adjust the question slightly. Maybe I can get answer from you: if price rises are unrelated to Re-Turn how are retailers covering the up front costs of this DRS?
This is similar the wheelie bin price rises. If revenue is suddenly removed or extra costs imposed the money has to come from somewhere. So where is it coming from?
Unintended consequences of fantastic green scheme. I wonder how this is going to help environment as this is how bins look like every night after re-junkie freelancer environmentalists do their bit to save the planet.
That is one laneway of many I pass on my way from work. Tidy town initiative says goodluck and goodbye…
Now this is new to me, I brought a bag of cans and bottles to lidl clonsilla, got the paper voucher and went home, left it in the car, then a few days later the wife goes to lidl clonee and they don't accept the voucher! WTAF
