Just heard on the news that people can report dangerous driving or mobile phone use on the Garda website. How would this work if I say I saw car 21DXXXX breakng the speed limit? Where's the proof?
The new process will make absolutely no difference except now you aren't ringing a call centre
Ah, I suspected as much @Seth Brundle ,thanks for the insight.
I've heard that asking in the Garda station for a pulse number for your 'case' is a good way to ensure that your complaint is at least recorded. Would they normally issue one or do you have to press them for it, in your experience? Or am I getting mixed up?
As someone who has used the old TW number, I've not a huge amount of faith in it (but also not a huge amount of faith in the entire process). The old TW number got you through to a call centre which relayed the basic details to the relevant station and after a week or two you might get a call back to come in and discuss it further (although sometimes you don't get the call back).
The call back is just part of the triaging process. Do you want to take it further, etc.
If you wish to take it further then you must go to the station and make a statement which involves a garda writing down as you dictate (and often you getting the garda to correct what they've written because it wasn't what you said to them).
Any video evidence is submitted at this point. There seems to be a massive knowledge gap out there in terms of how to provide the footage and how much footage. Some gardai are happy with just the relevant clip whereas some will say they want the whole journey (for continuity of evidence). Also the media allowed seems to differ. I've successfully submitted on DVD and via YouTube & Streamable. Some gardai incorrectly think I must submit my camera (get ta feck!!!).
The biggest issue I have with the existing system is that I've no idea what happens after I walk out of the station - did I just waste an hour of my time making a statement? Most of the time there is complete and indefinite radio silence from AGS. Did the driver accept the points ending the process or was my statement & DVD just fecked in the bin?
About a month ago I was in court over one particular incident. To be fair to him, the garda involved was great. Anyhow, despite the driver close passing me at speed, in which case I'd be almost inclined to consider myself a form of victim, I'm just a regular witness. I was asked to take the stand and the dipsh1t llegal-aid barrister asked me questions based on my statement (which is the "evidence"). The video really is just to help verify my witness statement.
The new process will make absolutely no difference except now you aren't ringing a call centre. You still will have to make a statement in the station and somehow hand over a copy of the footage. Nonetheless, even with a "Upload Video" button on the web form, you as a witness lodging a complaint will still have to traipse down to the station and make your statement. I don't think that this can change until our legal process is changed as the statement is absolutely required.
Bit of PR and the RSA/ Gardaí being seen to 'do' something.
Everything is possible, the question is whether the risk/effort/reward make any sense.
Submitted faked videos to AGS, risking prosecution for yourself to get your neighbour some penalty points doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I was just replying to the poster who said that technically it was not possible, when it is possible.
Just saw this ^^ that would make more sense than anonymous reporting.
I can download the footage from my dashcam to my phone/pc. If I saw something bad enough that I'd make a report on it, I'd download the dashcam footage and save it in case it was needed. Mine also has a feature where you can lock a specific recording so its not overwritten.
Would that stand up though?
I can't see that happening unless the person reporting is willing to give their name and stand up in court.
Otherwise reports could be made maliciously, even over a course of months or years.
The stakes are quite different here! Forging evidence to get yourself off a charge is one thing. Forging evidence to get someone some penalty points is quite another!
Risking a criminal charge for yourself, to have someone convicted of what is usually a civil offence, is quite a step.
Are you asking would someone be willing to forge evidence? Are you suggesting no-one has ever forged evidence before?
I don't really get what point you are making.
Would you also be prepared to hand over a fake video to the Gardai, knowing that you're liable for prosecution if you're proven wrong by the other party producing their own dashcam video, for example?
It would be a fairly high risk action.
Generally they will make an initial contact within weeks, not months.
They had this before about 10 years ago, could be 20 years now.
I reported an articulated truck doing a U-turn on O'Connell Bridge, causing mayhem. Got a phone call from a Garda about 6 months later about it. At that point I could no longer find the photos I took.
I said we are a long, long way away from being able to spoof footage of someone holding a phone or whatever. You said, in a direct reply, you're not sure we're that far away from footage being spoofed. You may not have said it directly, but you certainly implied it.
I never said speed isn't a problem. I said it's the only problem that gets any attention because it's low hanging fruit and it generates money. The fact that you've gone straight from "I never said that" (when you kinda did) to "I can't believe you think this" when I don't, is laughable. You'd wanna brush up on the auld reading comprehension.
The speed of a car can already be reasonably established at the time of an accident. How do you think they reach this 40% figure that you introduced into the argument? Your suggestion about a black box is pretty feckin stupid and has no real world benefits. Like the powers that be, you're focused on one aspect only and ignoring the hundreds of other factors that would improve the lives of millions of road users on a daily basis.
You said you're sure AI can easily add your car into a video. It cannot. It can't even get fingers correct, never mind replicating your face behind the wheel of your car with your reg plate visible. We're miles away from that type of scenario.
I could do it with a few hours work. We are not miles away. Anyone reasonably competent could do it. I'm not going to do it because I'd be getting into this sort of territory:
Oh dear god. Where did I say anything about adding your face in? Dark night, dangerous overtake, 151DXXXX car added to video overtaking dangerously in front of you. That is not hard and no we are not far from that being easier to do than anything. Last time I looked dash cams don't look out the side window……
If you don't think speed is a problem you don't drive on many back roads in this country. It is a massive problem right across the country. My suggestion about a black box was in the event of an accident it can easily be determined what speed a car is doing and take one problem off the Gardai enforcement and at least force some discipline onto the driver, especially if they are getting knock-down insurance in response.
Anyway, I'll wish you a good day. You're just here for an argument, my life is too short. Reply whatever you want I won't be reading and will skip past.
40% of fatal accidents aren't 'caused by speed'. 40% of fatal accidents have speeding as one of, if not the largest, contributing factors. If someone pulls out in front of you suddenly, without warning, while you're under the limit and you plough into the side of them and kill them…..that's not caused by your speed. If you were going slower, they might have survived. Therefore, the speed of your car is a mitigating factor in their death. Doesn't mean you caused it, just that speed was a factor. So it goes into your 40% statistic, even though the only way to ensure speed WASN'T a factor would be to force everyone to drive at 15km/h.
Speed is also one of the only factors that can be determined with any degree of certainty after the event. You can't tell if the dead guy who crashed his car into the pole was tired, or distracted, or a shite driver, or fell asleep, or swerved to avoid something etc. You can tell he would have survived the crash if he was going slower but you can't tell why he crashed half the time. So, into the 40% stats he goes. What if he fell asleep and leaned on the accelerator? Suddenly he's doing 70 in a 50 zone, but, in reality, he was obeying the speed limit up until he started spitting zeds. The accident wasn't caused by speed, but you bet your ass that's how it'll be recorded.
It's low hanging fruit and easily enforceable and, coincidentally, a money-spinner. That's why we focus on speed in this country and pretty much nothing else when it comes to road enforcement.
And what about non-fatal accidents? Where's the stats on them? It's been 18 years since we've had more than 1 road death per day, on average. Last year we had one every two days, which was the lowest in a decade. How many non-fatal accidents occur each day? Hundreds? Thousands? Why isn't there any effort to reduce them? Surely if you can get everyone to be better at the small stuff, the major stuff will reduce also?
absolutely, Lord of all you survey, I shall absolutely not engage in reasonable discourse and comment on a public message board as that is clearly outside my realm of competence!
Are we a long way away from videos being spoofed??? I'm not so sure…….
The obsession with speed is probably due to the fact that over 40% of fatal accidents are as a result of speed? Speeding is a major problem particularly on back roads.
I agree 4/5kph over the speed limit is not much but many road users do way more with no punishment - particularly on back roads where there is no enforcement yet statistically they are much more dangerous than motorways.
My suggestion re black box puts the bulk of the onus on behaviour rather than enforcements.
For the record, I fully support this portal. No system can enforce everything but if it is initiated it has to have actual teeth and not just be a waste of time for Gardai. For example if you record me running a red light and submit it to the portal then provided the footage is verified I should be getting a fine and penalty points, but lets face it its useless without video evidence.
This is really a non story, there has been a phone number available for many many years where you can report all these exact incidents.
The person on the phone asks the exact same questions and the report gets sent to the local Garda.
So the only difference is it's an online form instead of a phone call. All the outcomes, different scenarios, crank reports, statements etc being discussed have already all been happening for a long time.
I'm confused……..What has AI got to do with the new portal? The advent of AI has nothing to do with the discussion, if the new portal wasn't introduced then the impact on drivers would be the same, the evidence is still being submitted. The only difference with my suggestion is that the evidence is submitted much, much sooner.
For the record, I think your concerns are ridiculous, we are a long, long way away from being able to spoof footage of someone holding a phone or whatever. I'd say we're closer to dashcams coming as standard piece of equipment with all cars than we are to your scenario.
Your black box would be able to tell if a driver was speeding, alright. But what else would it be able to tell? How would it curb red light breakers? or Dangerous overtakes? Or pulling out in front of learner drivers etc? The obsession with speed in this country is outrageous, to the detriment of society IMO. Someone doing 4 or 5 km/h over the speed limit but obeys all other traffic laws is a much safer and better driver than someone who's under the limit but taking the piss with phone use or lane-hopping or overtaking on the hard-shoulder etc.
Patterns based on unverified reports - if you're not going to read what I was replying to then don't bother engaging.
I disagree with your statement that a judge does not consider “unverified reports”. Read what you wrote. Much eye witness evidence is necessarily “unverified”. We don’t live in a world where everything it recorded for audio and video. Most rape cases, for example, rely on “unverified reports” of what occurred, not of the act but of whether there was consent. Suggesting that everything needs to be verified is erroneous on your part. I don’t care what you were replying to - I concerned myself solely with what you stated.
AI might render it useless though because I am sure it can easily add your car in to a video of my dashcam……
What would be a much more effective solution would be if some insurance company offered a much reduced premium but you had a "black box" style thing in the car whereby they log the speed, etc of the car at all times. If you were speeding at the time of an accident or were looking at your phone for example, your insurance is null and void. If the log is not working, your insurance is null and void.
Driver behaviour would improve massively IMO if their insurance was an issue. Not sure how it would monitor mobile phone use admittedly bar it was a camera on the driver……but I'm sure there is a technical solution to it as well.
So you agree with me, perhaps you should have responded to them.
but they are wrong; there’s no provision for random emails to be presented as evidence. The individual would have to be asked to do so on affidavit or in person.
Those reports wouldn't be admissible in evidence. The main thing would be to allow Gardai to intercept badly driven vehicles.
To the best of my knowledge, this new portal is, essentially, an extra method of initial reporting of [insert dangerous driving offence here].
At the moment, you ring traffic watch, log the incident, they give you a reference number, then they reach out to you for whatever evidence you have (photo, video, testimony, whatever), and then you never hear from them again until the case has been resolved, unless it goes to court, at which point you may have to confirm your testimony or confirm the footage is true etc.
With the new portal, you don't have to ring anyone, you go online and log the incident, then everything else follows as if you had rung them.
As usual in Ireland, it's a ridiculous non-solution to a huge problem. Why you cannot submit your evidence at the time of logging the incident is a mystery to everyone but the incompetent idiots who oversee this type of thing. Completely ridiculous.
You should be able to submit videos etc. from the beginning. And it should be for pretty much any driving offence. Guards take a look and contact the driver….."here's a video of you crossing a solid white line / overtaking a cyclist unsafely / parked on double yellows or the footpath / breaking a red light / tailgating / swerving across three lanes to get to your exit……..that'll be a €180 fine and 3 points on your licence, unless you can prove it was someone else driving your car on that day".
Can't currently.
There has been talk about a facility to upload footage when making a report.
Plenty of insurance companies already have this facility when dealing with claims. And it's trivial from a technical point of view to set it up, I could do it in an hour. I assume it's something to do with relevant legislation/data protection/f- all will from the Gardai, as to why it's not set up yet.
well, that'll prune you out of the process handily enough. if keeping a video longer than six months is too much hassle for you, it's a lot less hassle than having to turn up in court (which you're asked to confirm your willingness to do at the start).
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