Stations cannot broadcast on terrestrial multiplexes in the UK unless they have a DSP licence within the UK. In the next few months Licensed Stations of all types from Ireland will be able to apply for DSP licences in the UK, the media bill has been passed which makes special provision for this, however they must still (UK government) make a Statutory Instrument (which must be agreed by Parliament to designate Ireland as a 'qualifying country' for DSP licences. Regarding RnaG on the NIMM - they most certainly do not hold a DSP Licence in the UK and this must be some kind of special arrangement from the Good Friday agreement. I once read that a loophole for inclusion is that the non UK station must not broadcast in English, however, whatever arrangement they have pre-dates CDSP and DSP licences
I think the economy of scale is there, but would require a current operating model change to something not seen in Ireland currently…
Something akin to the Global Radio string of stations in the UK (Heart, Capital, Smooth, Classic, then the numerous spin offs of the first 2, along with LBC)….
They all have regionalised news and advertising , then a centralised playlist/DJ…. there are options there to run regionalised programs etc… also as and when (or even concurrently… the technology allows for certain programs on certain TX's at the same time).
RTE along with a few more of the popular radio stations would be ideal for this…they would just need RTE to sort out their ludicrous pay, throw in some sort of decent sports (even getting Talksport on contract) and you have a pretty robust national offering…. Of course there will be casualties, such is business or life….
But trying to operate DAB, under an FM operating model was doomed to fail from the off….
"There is some sort of a law that any foreign English language terrestrial broadcasting is not allowed in the UK, but they might make an exemption for the RTE"
Doesn't stop the Northern Ireland Mini Multiplex on TV which also carries RnaG (but not Radio 1 for some reason)
Also I dont get the aversion in some quarters to UK services being relayed in the Republic. If the market can only support a limited number of homegrown services and there's an outside source of cheap programming available then why not use it ? By the same token why not relay some NPR and CBC programming from North America or even some services from mainland Europe (FiP from France would be a good candidate as one doesn't need to understand the language to appreciate the music although having said that anything which might help with our embarrassingly low proficiency with foreign languages is surely worth a shot) ?
I don't know or understand why you think this is something "so personal" to me?
And regarding of funds, how much did the RTE waste every year on keeping the 252 alive?
Also, it seems to work for other smaller countries as well. Take a look at Norway, and the country isn't exactly small.
Also consider how much revenue could be done, if DAB is used. The sheer operational cost of FM as well as the limited scalability will ultimately accelerate the downturn of radio, especially if DAB is not considered.
Look, if you don't like DAB and don't see the benefit of DAB, I will certainly not convince you
The post you're quoting literally says I have three DAB radios. I don't know why this is so personal for you and why you have to be antagonistic. Whether I like DAB is entirely separate from whether I think DAB is a viable possibility in Ireland.
Just look what is on air in the UK
There's no point. We will simply never have those economies of scale.
and the public opinion is more open mided,
Again with the personal antagonism. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them closed-minded.
Again, I'd love if DAB was available here. But the bottom line is that it will not be remotely feasible without enormous public expenditure and that is not a good use of taxpayer funds.
FM is monopolised in Ireland.
Why invest in tech, when you don't have to, because no one knows any different.
While semi-lucrative now… the above 2 statements will come back to bite Irish radio providers in the future through:
-next technology refresh, FM is expensive to run compared to a full DAB MUX (even taking into account additional in fill TX's)
-people naturally move to streaming, they won't be streaming Irish based content, they already gravitate to Youtube/Spotify/Soundcloud/dedicated un-subscription services which meet their tastes better than listening to the local deaths 5 times a day… thats what RIP.ie is for
Someone will need to make a move to something soon over the next few years to offer something to the masses, otherwise it will be LW shutdown 2.0….slow and painful, for something severely under utilised.
Look, if you don't like DAB and don't see the benefit of DAB, I will certainly not convince you.
The general attitude in Ireland is "the ship has sailed", "now it's too late" and "a technology 'we' don't need" (Irish Times article)
And if BBC Radio 4 and Radio 5 as well as Talk Sports are no longer available in the Republic of Ireland some people including myself would certainly miss it.
I honestly don't know what FM could bring to the table for me? Local Independent, or Irish commerical stations being afraid of "unnecessary" competition and insisting on their "territory"? Resulting in less choice for me as a listener?
Just look what is on air in the UK, ( exclude the big city London for fairness reasons ) and look at Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, also Belfast in NI. Look what is on air in the Netherlands, Belgium, France currently rolling out the Metropolitan 1 and 2 muxes….
If you ever lived in another country where DAB is widely available and the public opinion is more open mided, you will certainly miss it, when you return to the Republic of Ireland.
Norway shut FM down, Switzerland will do so by the end of this year, Belgium will most likely followy by 2030, and most others would consider a date some time during the 2030ies. Even the historically most restrictive radio market Austria is rolling out DAB.
The problem is that FM radio in the Republic of Ireland is increasingly without innovation. The situation for FM radio in the Repbulic of Ireland is certainly not as it was in the 90ies or 00s.
In the UK there is on and off the discussion to relay RTE Radio 1 on DAB when the 252 LW transmitter was shut down.
In the UK there is on and off the discussion to relay RTE Radio 1 on DAB when the 252 LW transmitter was shut down
Is there actually such a discussion? Like, LW has been shut down for over a year. I'd say it's more off than on at this stage.
And the idea was, well the elderly Irish in the UK rely on it. Is there a huge UK diaspora here who rely on the wireless for news from home? Of course not, so what's the argument for putting BBC on DAB here?
It's hard to have a discussion with the opinion, "what can DAB bring to the table"
I'm not being dismissive, it's a genuine question, and tbh I've yet to really hear a good answer.
I'd say FM doesn't really bring anything "to the table anymore".
I'd say FM doesn't really bring anything "to the table anymore
FM is out-dated tech but it is universally available and absolutely everyone knows what it is. Neither of those apply to DAB.
Also the audience which loves FM gets older and older and are less and less
This is an argument for moving away from broadcasting and towards streaming, not from FM to DAB.
To be clear, I have two DAB radios at home and one in my car, I would love it if there was a signal to pick up, and if there's a viable path to it, then great. I personally can't see how it happens without enormous public funds being spent and that's where my objections arise.
In the UK there is on and off the discussion to relay RTE Radio 1 on DAB when the 252 LW transmitter was shut down. There is some sort of a law that any foreign English language terrestrial broadcasting is not allowed in the UK, but they might make an exemption for the RTE.
It's hard to have a discussion with the opinion, "what can DAB bring to the table".
I'd say FM doesn't really bring anything "to the table anymore". Outside of Dublin choice is rather limited. In a city like Cork the choice of radio stations is even worse.
Also the audience which loves FM gets older and older and are less and less.
This is why some people whish for BBC Radio to be put on DAB in Ireland as well.
"Wish" is the operative word here. Even if a national DAB network appeared tomorrow, it would not have BBC and probably never would.
So the question is still there - what is DAB actually bringing to the table? FM has the mass-market well covered, the internet has more niche offerings than DAB can ever provide.
The problem is that BBC Radio offers way more than RTE Radio. Yes this is debatable, but still, BBC offers more.
Furthermore, the Irish listener is used to picking up BBC Radio either on MW or LW, - especially Radio 4 and Radio 5 as well as the commercial TalkSport. There is nothing comparable like that in the Republic of Ireland. It is also common knowledge that BBC Radio as well as Talk Sports on AM will be shut down at some point. This is why some people whish for BBC Radio to be put on DAB in Ireland as well.
With the constant "Anti DAB Stance" Irish radio won't do themselves any good. FM offers limited choice and has high cost and can't keep up with today's expectations, can't really scale.
The point is tho that Northern Ireland only gets the BBC and Talksport, Absolute, LBC etc because the BBC and the national MUX owners are mandated to treat Northern Ireland the same as the rest of the UK. Incidentally, some years ago when DAB was available here in the republic, there wasn't a month that would go by without someone posting here that the BBC should be on Irish DAB and shame on RTE/the Bai for "blocking the BBC"
Derry gets Highland radio, Iradio and the six southern nationals all at local strength/quality Parts of Dublin may get fringe reception of the UK nationals but its not hardly comparable.
On DAB Derry also gets most of the UK multiplexes plus the NI one and a local SSDAB multiplex. Dublin gets…..nothing (bar fringe reception of some UK stuff in a few areas)
That makes five BBC stations (BBC Foyle/Ulster are one with an opt out that relays Five Live at certain times, let's be level), one national in Classic, one community station and two provincial CHR's. Dublin has the four RTE outlets and Today FM and locally Classic Hits, 98FM, Nova 100, Q 102, Spin, FM104, Sunshine, RnLife (Minority), Dublin City FM (Community of Interest), Spirit (Very low audience but high power), several local community stations (Small fry granted.). The Dublin are also gets the local signal from East Coast, LMFM, KFM, Midlands and, in some places, Beat 102103 and iRadio.
Not to compare quality of what each market gets (another days debate.) but it's erroneous to say that Derry has a wider selection.
And I didn't even mention The 90's Network, Hello Mike!
Regarding Internet Streaming/Internet Radio, it is a repeated counterpoint in the cyclic discourse over the rather sorry sad state of affairs of Irish radio that takes place across a few threads and the same points come up again. I am a radio enthusiast, I was unfortunately born too late to enjoy the hayday of the super-pirates when radio was more interesting but I was able to witness first hand how regulatory blockades prevent new or interesting stations that I do want to listen to from coming on stream. Sure, they could stream online but they don't because for them there isn't any point and nobody hears you. I used to enjoy the live programming, the presentation, the institutional knowledge and the curated music selections but tuning in now it just sounds like a Spotify playlist which is frankly boring. Sure, I could setup a DAB transmitter in the morning, and sure it's unlikely I'll get a knock on the door if noone's tuning in and sure I could 'mess about' but that's not the same thing as wanting to run something at 200W to cover a city and offer something to a wider audience and a small-scale service is what I want the opportunity to try but as of yet, cannot do so.
As for claims about me, I don't know anyone claiming that I would (or had plans to) setup a national service; I'm aware that Viamux/Eirdab were testing in Cork, and Dublin. I'm aware that DBDB was planning to launch a service (but that quietly fizzled out), just off hand. And to answer your question: Yes, several times and I've always been told words to the effect of "there are no licences available" or "we're not currently seeking to licence any new multiplexes (radio or television) during this current licencing period". They've always been very courteous, polite, professional and have replied, but I disagree with their position. Note, my position extends beyond just radio in this case, their position also means that services like local community television have a limited audience. Lastly I'll repeat myself, Internet Radio is a dead end and it only gives the illusion of having any traction because a handful of folks use it over short durations, a larger operator (e.g. Bauer) might be able to contract a service provider for a large number of listener slots and pay an app developer for a slick app with all their podcasts, repeats and socials but a smaller operator cannot and so I cannot see them even overtaking DAB listeners in the same space - you just cannot replace broadcasting with unicasting. So far from democratising it would ensure that only the financially deep-pocketed could ever afford it and that would make our current situation far worse.
The issue I have with the model here isn't just that noone can setup any new DTT or DAB multiplexes, but that the current arrangement makes it difficult to impossible to launch any new radio stations on FM even when there's multiple frequencies available. I always found it curious for example how when (then known as) 4FM launched it conveniently notched out the South East - Dublin, Cork, Limerick (Clare due to overspill) and Galway but nowhere near Waterford or Wexford. There is no shortage of FM stations for Waterford as proven countless times. The model is broken.
And this is the root of my complaint, it's less about wanting to see DAB resurrected and more about wanting the right to choose what station I listen to while those in power continue to deny me that right.
There are only two options here: 1. Revamp and rework the procedure for FM licence applications and allow for others to 'make a go of it' and either sink or swim on their own merits; their money, their choice. 2. Allow folks to band together and setup a DAB mux to provide capacity for more stations where FM spectrum genuinely is not available.
I maintain it's less about being a fan of DAB, for me it's part technical challenge, but mostly railing against the horrible lack of choice on live radio in Ireland, choice we've been denied for 35 years.
I have seen the DTS heat maps for stations which operate on DAB in NI with what I would consider weak signals on the Southern side of the border.
If you dont know what DTS is - look it up !
You would be shocked at the amount of listeners to UK DAB in Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Louth - and that's just new vehicles from about 2022+ which are equipped with DTS
When something is available - people will listen. End of
it's actually a reasonable success.
yes the BBC backing it originally was a help, but ultimately the technology is a reasonable success providing much wider choice of formats and lower transmission costs.
you wouldn't given nobody ever said such.
massive over exaggeration here.
The Derry-Foyle area would have the benefit of a wide choice of stations on FM as it will have good signals of all the 6 national ROI stations, iRadio, Highland from nearby transmitters in neighbouring Donegal, in addition to all the national BBC, Classic FM, R Ulster/Foyle, Downtown, Q Radio, Drive 105
this is just you making up stuff now because your odd behaviour has been called out.
it's a radio discussion forum, therefore stuff in relation to radio will be discussed.
lots of threads on here don't interest me so i don't bother with them and it works brilliantly, because me going on and ranting about how boaring a thread is or whatever is just pointless trolling.
Such as?
In the last 5 years, online listening in the UK via smartapeakers, smartphones etc has taken off like a rocket, "Digital radio" no longer means just DAB over there, Indeed apps like BBC Sounds and the new "Rayo" app from bauer are being promoted big time the way DAB was in the 00s, but the way boards.ie DAB fans go on, you'd swear the clock stopped on audio technology in 2008
Even in the much vaunted UK DAB has been a completely damp squib with most people still using FM or internet Radio via Alexa. It's only the backing of the BBC which has kept it alive.
Post one of this thread? I wish! DAB fans have been having the same round in circles discussion on this forum for about 2 decades.
Basically this thread has been repeating itself since post one with no new content added. It's an opportunity for fans of DAB to express their persecution complex. But really everyone else (and that is the vast majority) are telling you that no one cares.
you know what i do if i find a thread annoying or whatever? i either leave if i have been partaking in it, or i just scroll on.
that way those who are interested can post away without individuals coming in to tell them all how the thread is boring or nobody cares or whatever.
it's a great method that has served me and i suspect most boards users very well and it works 100% of the time.
The reason radio is dying a death is die to the awful limited choices available on FM. Between the cash machine syndicate of stations, the woeful 2FM there isn't much else worth listening to.
Newstalk or 1 if you like current affairs, lyric for their niche, after that there just isn't any quality out there.
The appeal of DAB+ is the lower cost of entry and the potential for many many new and smaller entrants to broadcast radio, either on a national or regional basis. It's the same reason online radio, streaming and podcasts are eating radios lunch - the internet is offering a far greater range of content because creators can do so much cheaper and with less regs than is the case for broadcast FM.
Clearly the regulator needs reform here if radio is to compete in future - and a good start is moving to cheaper broadcast technologies.
There's a wider choice of stations on FM in that region than there is in the Dublin area, so I'm not surprised that a local DAB mux would have so little on it.
The thread is annoying.
at least they can use the platform, nobody in the south can whether they want to or not.
at least it is an actual commercial market up there regardless of whether one likes what is on offer or not, here it is a highly regulated closed shop model.
so still ultimately better then here dispite any of its faults.
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