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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057962937/mayo-gaa-discussion-part-4#latest
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Green Peter - Permanent
Man Vs ManUre until 9/05/23
Based on what exactly? Our record in finals or ability to break down ultra defensive teams ?
Unfortunately, until we actually win another one, I'd be afraid of a team of u-12s taking us in an AIF. 2 own goals, Donie V getting himself sentoff, Dublin ball picked off the ground and not seen in the last seconds, Tyrone final (although I believe they were the better team on the day with better tactics) etc etc.
In 2021, how experienced was O'Hora, or Plunkett, or Mullin, or Ruane, or Walsh, or Loftus, or Conroy, or ROD at senior intercounty football? How long had they been established intercounty starters? How many elite defensive teams had they faced? How many AI finals had they played in? For those who had - how old were they and wasnt that the covid final, with no supporters? Same goes for the majority of guys on the bench, and plenty more not in the 26. Aidan O'Shea on the oisin mcconville podcast indicated how mayo probably got a bit carried away after the Dublin win that year and how he spoke to horan afterwards about regretting not trying to reign things in a bit, with horan saying that he felt the same way - they were clearly a young and inexperienced team and that was obvious in how they played that game.
Looking back on the vaughan one - can anyone say for sure that john small was getting sent off before vaughan botched his 'Im making sure he gets a red' tactic? My gut instinct tells me he stays on the pitch because the refs were afraid of giving big calls against dublin in those days. I think he gets a stern talking to and jim gavin gets to sub him off. Think 2 dubs running into each other - free in. Think bastick with the most obvious pick off the ground in the final seconds of the drawn game that you will ever see, with a linesman standing with the perfect view of it. I think he stays on.
When vaughan connected high, it gave him the easy option - 2 reds.
The 2021 Mayo team had vastly more experience of AI finals than the Tyrone team that beat them or the the Armagh team that won yesterday so l think we can knock the inexperience notion on the head. Inexperience didnt stop us knocking out a vastly more experienced Dublin team in the semi final. It has been more mentality issues than experience that has cost us finals.
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals in the previous 8 years before 2021 and had also lost the 2018 final to probably a Dublin team that were at their best, I think 2018 was the peak of the Dublin 6 in a row team. They blew everyone away that year.
Tyrone have lost a lot of players since their 2021 win. McNamee, McKenna, McCann, Mark Bradley. Meyler and Kieran McGeary have played much either in the last two years. So really tis a completely different Tyrone now to the one that was there in 2021.
Do people actually think, player for player, Mayo were the better team than Tyrone in 2021? I don't think there was much between the two teams, with Tyrone probably shading it with the players at their disposal. I recall Mayo being unable to put in a full 70 mins in any game that year (awful against both Galway and Dublin in the first half s. Dublin really let that second half and ET be played foolishly on Mayo terms - i.e chaos)
Regardless of how many semi-finals Tyrone played Hennelly, Keegan, Durcan, Coen. Ruane, Loftus, Doc, AOS, K. McLoughlin had experience of multiple final appearances. A number of the younger crew played in the 2020 final also. It wasn't a lack of experience that lost that final for us.
Refereeing decisions, curses, sideline tactics, inexperience, injuries, sending offs…we can keep adding to the list of excuses but 13 final appearances since 1989 and 14 changes in management but no win suggests the issue is with our players. In my opinion it's an ingrained lack of ruthlessness to finish the job.
Let's at Galway and Padraic Joyce.
2021 - Lost Connacht Final.
2022 - Lost the AIF.
2023 - Lost League Final.
2024 - Lost another AIF.
At what point do Galway start to be questioned and get even a fraction that of the abuse and negative commentary that we get? Answer: Never, because they're the aristocrats of football. 🙄 Walsh, Comer etc. have all sh*t the bed now too many times but will still be lauded as great footballers. Galway still be favourites for Connacht next year and be picked to win Sam by many. Absolute joke! They got extremely lucky this year, can't see them getting as lucky again.
Congrats to Armagh, by far the better team, more organised, played well and deserved the win. No way will McGeeney walk away, he'll want to put everything into getting an Ulster title next year.
As for ourselves, if anything this year showed that we are not far away if we could get all our players fit and get a better management team because McStay is taking us nowhere. We would have been destroyed in a QF this year. I don't think he deserves another year for taking us backward at a rate of knots because the CB are spineless so will give him one. Regardless of him having another 2 years left on his term, I think the dogs on the street know and believe that it's either Sam or a P45 for him next year. If not, then another group will have retired without winning the big one.
Jeez, that's an awful thing to be hoping for.
Galway players are getting plenty of stick dont worry.
Yeah just get new Mayo management in that'll sort it.
I've been hearing 'we're not far away' since 89. Meanwhile Donegal, Derry, Down, Armagh, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Tyrone and Meath come and pick up all irelands.
you will have to read that one back to yourself. if we put two people on him, then hes not elite. keep reading it until it sinks in
Any truth in Rochford coming to Kildare, is he gone from Kevin's management team?
Where did you hear that or is it just an unsubstantiated rumour?
Probably just an unsubstantiated rumour to be honest, but there are rumorus in Kildare that he is going to be on Flanno's management team. I don't see why you would leave Mayo to come to Kildare.
Haven't heard a thing about that. Who knows.
I do think there'll be a shake up in the Mayo management. Who the departures will be or where they'll go, I do not know.
Would Rochford out, Moran in be all too obvious? Not that I would be in favour of that.
Depends on if Andy sees himself as a coach or a manager - if he sees himself as a manager, then I doubt he'd take a job as a coach
It seems to be a Connacht thing. Just show up at an AI final with no proper plan or strategy, especially if things go sideways such as an injury to a key player. Its a shame Connacht GAA don't focus more on coaching excellence, decision making and the like. Its time for Connacht counties to put differences aside and push on and win AIs.
Playing a nice brand of football will get you so far, but when you get to an AI final the coaching team have to get everything right and be masterful tacticians. Time and time again the coaching ticket for teams from the West collapse in AI finals. Its a pattern at this stage.
"Its time for Connacht counties to put differences aside"
WTF are you on about 🤣🤣
Mayo and Galway should amalgamate to win an All-Ireland
I do think this could be in the pipeline. Can't say I'd be in favour. Not sure I rate Moran as a management type, even if he might be a great motivator.
I'm of the same view. More of a forwards coach or selector I'd see him as. Not a manager/strategist role.
IS it harsh to base an opinion on his book and say that I don't think Moran would be ruthless enough to be a good manager.
Any specifics for anyone who hasnt read it?
I think the fact that New York beat Leitrim even if it went to penalties is enough to say no. While he was an exceptional footballer, as a manager he has not done anything that suggest he should warrant inclusion.
You could have levelled the same criticism about Donaghy being included in the Armagh setup. Sometimes there is a place for a particular set of skills in a setup.
He will find you and he will kill you.
True but we should be looking for someone who has significant experience. The difference is Donaghy first stent has resulted in a team wining the All Ireland. He also has all ireland medals so he has a profile that is different. I think Donaghy value has risen based on them winning the all ireland while the opposite for Andy. Andy jumped straight into inter county managment rather than doing the selector role and should have went the selector role with a top team rather than what he did. Donaghy seems to have a plan to build a profile for himself and potentially go for the Kerry job. I don't think Andy is what we need at this point in time imo. I would have McDonald over him if there was a choice.
