This is where they go.
https://www.lpp.ie/re-turn-drs/#:~:text=From%20February%202024%2C%20when%20you,your%20deposit%20back%20in%20full.
You are wasting your time looking at statistics from 7 years before the DRS launch.
OK, Return responded. Shops with broken machines have to accept manual returns. And they seem interested in finding out if shops are refusing.
Yes, if the RVM isn’t working, the store should take the bottles and cans from you. Have you experienced issues with this? -----RPO & Community DRS Manager
Yes, if the RVM isn’t working, the store should take the bottles and cans from you. Have you experienced issues with this?
-----
RPO & Community DRS Manager
I removed his name as I don't think it right to share on here. So please stop changing stores just because the machine is broken. Force the manual return. Its not our issue if the machines don't work, and it's worse for the environment to be driving around looking for machines that work.
Unless you can provide some standing or foundation as to why it would matter, then it does not.
That you feel that way has no material bearing on things. Your notion of the contract has no force.
You've given zero reason why bin companies can't or won't increase their prices to cover the loss of the revenue from recyclables.
Do you believe that these statistics provide a partial insight into practices then and are much different today.
If there was a massive increase in recycling, DRS would not be needed.
You misunderstood my point.
There is no contract that says any consumer has to put certain designated items in their green bin.
Therefore the bin companies are not justified in increasing the price to their customers based on an alternative being made available.
We are at one in not wanting a price increase.
Wake up and live in the real works. A bin company separates waste and recycling items. Some have value, some have cost. If part of there positive revenue from this is gone then they must recoup that loss elsewhere.
It similar I sell cattle to the factory. The animal is skinned, gutted and other parts removed( head, let's below the knees etc. I am.oaid on the bare carcasse. However the hide and offal all have value. These go up and down in price abd even though I am not directly paid for them they effect the price e per kg I am paid.
A lot of businesses are similar there have positive and negative byproducts if a positive revenue product is removed it value must be recouped elsewhere..…usually the consumer or orginal producer is caught for the cost
Again, it doesn't matter.
"Not justified" - in what sense of the word? Legally? Contractually?
No such contract is required.
If you think otherwise, take a court case against them.
They can and they will increase charges to cover the lost revenue from recyclables. That's their justification.
If it's a fixed price contract for a year, it will hit people at renewal.
You did that I am sure, but plenty of folks werent so responsible.
I guess the idea with the scheme is to incentivise people to recycle, rather than rely on good will alone.
Odd chap
To clarify…. to put them in a collection unit from which they might be recycled.
My SuperValu still has boxes of the 12 Beers Of Christmas from last year on sale. €30+deposit. I've been keeping an eye on them to see if they drop the price to MUP as they are out of date next month.
They obviously wouldn't be in scope as they are in stock since last October so they are either taking the piss with the deposit or they've opened the boxes and replaced the barcodes when the scheme came in.
Quick, call the Council and get someone down there now. Lawbreaking! Arrest them!
Thats not what it say. Its say 20% of recycled plastic were PET bottles, not 20% of PET bottles were recycled
I stand corrected.
Legally they can't sell it as of the 1st of May unless you can reclaim a chargeable deposit. So they probably opened the box and attached barcodes
Well if peolpe dont give that much of a crsp about littering the place. 15cent wont make much difference to the same peolple
That's all well and good but the leaving cert student at the till isn't going to be trained to take back manual returns, as i previously mentioned, i witnessed a situation in which someone had put their bottles in the machine, printed the voucher, taken the voucher to the till but the voucher just wouldn't scan and the tellers only answer was to come back with it another day. I was kinda surprised that the customer just happily put the voucher in their purse and left
Oh, I am wide awake ok.
You describe a commercial transaction between you and a factory.
The issue at hand here is that new legislation is making us use RVMs because the government wants to reach EU targets.
At the same time bin companies who used to collect bottles and cans want to continue to be paid for not collecting them.
It's up to the government who privatised a public service and made service agreements with the companies to sort this out.
I'm not suing anyone.
I've explained my position at length now and I think it has some merit.
You haven't put forward any ideas except to say it's going to happen.
It has no merit legally or contractually. It is how you feel about it, but that doesn't give it any standing.
Not sure why I need to put forward any ideas… it is a thread to discuss the scheme and I'm calling out a side effect of it. I seem to remember very dismissive posts on the thread that it could be a side effect, until it started getting reported in national newspapers. Are we not allowed to mention such side effects unless you have an idea to solve it? Nope, so I reject the premise.
But in my view, this is up to the government who implemented Re-turn to sort out, instead of pushing the extra costs onto consumers. They were warned during the consultation process of the impact Re-turn could have on kerbside collection. As the funding is now gone to fund Re-turn, unless some clever way can be found to involve waste companies in Re-turn, then realistically that means subvention by the government.
Can confirm. I'm still seeing the same amount of cans and bottles dumped on the road outside my house. Mainly teenagers, for whom 15 cent is not worth looking up from their phone for, never mind finding the nearest DRS machine.
Plenty of people go through the bins to find them.
The mess left is an unfortunate downside of the scheme, but certainly a lot of containers get returned, even if not by the person that purchased them.
How the retailers deal with it is literally not my problem. I have ti return it to a return point, not worry about a multi million euro companys processes. If they've put an untrained teen on the customer service desk then that same teenager is capable of calling a manager.
Some seem intent to make every step of this scam the consumers issue, when it's not. We pay the deposit, we hold onto our rubbish and we return it to get our deposit back. That is the sum total of the consumers responsibility. Whether the machine is working or not, not our issue.
And if the machines ate my cans or didn't print a receipt, I'd demand they check cctv so I can get my money back, or I'd report them for theft. Publicly.
They will fail to meet the targets and that is pretty much guaranteed. Quite a lot of the people are not returning bottles they paid deposit on so there is zero chance re turn will meet the targets.
Cans will end up in aluminum foundry that is pretty much guaranteed. At about 1000 euro a metric ton that is very valuable material.
What would be interested is to see where your DRS plastic bottles go after they are picked up.
That company is primarily focused on recovery and recycling of plastic film material. As for re-turn and their cooperation that is at the moment in form of counting, sorting and baling the re-turn scheme material only.
Where does it go from there?
How much counting, sorting and baling of the scheme material cost?
Too many unknowns with this fantastic scheme that one naturally wonder why they are not forthcoming with details.
At this day there are very few people who do not know about recycling their waste. Before this spectacular invention people just used their recycling bins without any issue. There are people who threw some bottles or cans in a ditch or out of a window of a car mainly when they were going home from a night out. This scheme is completely pointless and wont make an iota of difference simply because people who did not care before while going home pissed drunk wont be thinking about 15 or 25 cents for a second. It only added inconvenience and cost for everyone else who disposed of their containers the usual way.
Inconvenience of wasting time ferrying containers back to the store and returning them individually and cost of time wasted and as it seems even increase of waste collection price.
There is zero incentive to recycle, you are only getting your own money back.
Is re-turn going to pay me interest on my money they charged me on top of the price of a product I bought because they are free to use them till I claim it back? Or am I renting the bottles from them?
The government doesn't care, or at least THIS version of our government doesn't care. They privatised the public service so as to take it off of their list of responsibilities and they could wash their hands of it.
And a private business concern, which is what our waste management is now, can do what they damn well please so long as it's within the law. So if they feel that their profits are being impacted they can, and do, increase their prices pretty much at will.
That's your opinion and I'm ok with the fact that we differ on some points.
I wasn't the author of any dismissive posts but was looking for more information. When it became clear the bin companies were threatening a price increase on the back of DRS I called it out immediately.
And you know I never said anyone shouldn't mention any matters related to DRS.
In your last paragraph you suggest subvention by the government. If the bin companies get that no price increase to customers would be necessary.
