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Discovering Increasing Automation in my new car

tohaltuwi

Yesterday I collected my new pride and joy, a Toyota RAV4 hybrid, and am discovering the tech on board by driving it. Sales execs hardly even bother to point out the advanced features in cars any more, as they are becoming more and more advanced by the day without even fully detailing these advances.

I have MS, and wanted a car that’s easy to drive, can carry mobility aids, and have plenty of safety feature. I traded in a four year old Toyota CH-R hybrid, which was a very decent car, and got a decent value from the dealer

I was pleasantly surprised at the features I hadn’t been told about, and discovered for myself. The test drive was very good, but it is even better in “real life”. I find that if I attempt to exceed the speed limit, not alone do I get an initial warning sound, but the pedal offers resistance, until I slow down to keep within limit.

I’m being warned about speed bumps ahead, and “children about” warning signs. With the app, I was verbally advised of traffic ahead on my route today without setting any routing.

Reversing into my tight underground space against a wall is a breeze. It is an almost idiot-proof car.

It is all positive going forward for safety on our roads. Has anyone else been pleasantly surprised about the modern tech aboard your new(/ish) cars?

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kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122329613#Comment_122329613

If we're taking blindspot monitoring specifically, this is required on trucks. I'm not sure if/when it'll be mandated for cars. I did mention the lack of training earlier too, and you dismissed it.

https://www.fercam.com/en-int/blog/road-safety-in-europe--2-2390.html

What you're forgetting here is the human factor. An individual human, can and should check their blindspot every time, but take millions of drivers and you know that you'll have thousands of people who forgot to check every day, and you will be one of them, one day. It's a fact of life unfortunately, and so we implement safety nets.

On my car, the system is passive, just showing a red light if a car is in my blindspot. But if I indicate to change lanes while a car is there, it goes insane, beeping very loudly and cuts the radio so I pay attention.

There is a line where it could become a distraction, yes (I'm thinking Tesla graphics), but the vast majority if implementations are discreet until - until they're not.

This is why AEB doesn't brake gradually, it waits until absolutely the last second and then anchors on - so that you don't become complacent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122330335#Comment_122330335

That's how it should be, and why I think ultrasonics sensors can be better than a mid quality camera. A camera draws your attention to the screen, but the ultrasonics encourage you to use your mirrors. Going one step further, my old car wouldn't even use a changing tone for proximity, it has a light bar that lit up more as you got closer to an object. It was mounted in the ceiling at the rear, and absolutely forced you to turn your head and look in the mirror.

Montage of Feck

Its a bit swings and roundabouts, the likes of blind spot detection obviously helps safety but modern car design has increased the blind spot area.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331611#Comment_122331611

Yes for some reason manufacturers these days are trying to emulate the H2 Hummer but "sportier" it seems. I genuinely do not know why they need to be so bulbous and blocky. I think car design peaked between the early 2000's and mid 2010's. It's been all downhill from there, in my humble opinion of course.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324045#Comment_122324045

Can it detect potholes though? Some in my area are very deep and dangerous.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331680#Comment_122331680

https://www.mercedesofsalem.com/mercedes-benz-magic-body-control/

More of a comfort feature, and there are limitations of course….

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331577#Comment_122331577

Of course it's required on trucks. they don't have a back window. They can't observe their blindspot so anything is better than nothing.

But you're getting to what my issue is there - there is a line where it becomes a distraction.

Did anybody study that line? Does anybody actually care and evidence when those features work, when they fail and whether or not they should be used. Or is it just manufacturers one upping each other with untested features because ultimately they take no responsibility for their performance. It's the accountability I take issue with. It's something pretty much nobody gets or we're too used to defending the trillion dollar companies.

R.O.R

During bad weather, the front assist on my car becomes unavailable. I only know this because the car tells me that the front assist isn't functioning. I don't know for sure, but I'd be very confident if one of the safety assist functions fails on a vehicle, there will be some sort of warning that it isn't functioning.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332351#Comment_122332351

Have you studied the data, or is it your opinion that these safety systems aren't great, and because of that, no one tested them before fitting them, or ran any testing on them?

Having supplied vehicles to Valeo as far back as 2015, for testing purposes of technology that still isn't mainstream yet, I can tell you that a lot of development and testing goes in to such features.

Brian Scan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332351#Comment_122332351

"Or is it just manufacturers one upping each other with untested features"

In what way are the features untested?

maidhc

The mid 00s was the high point in car automation and design. We got abs, electric windows airbags and all that, but not the levels of bings and bongs the new cars have.

i have a 232 Camry platinum, a 241 Rav GR Sport and a 03 Landcruiser. The Camry beats the Rav as it doesn’t have the infernal audible warning for speed, while the Landcruiser beats them all as it just does what it’s told with no fuss.

Hailtothethief

I learned to drive when you had to pull out the choke to start it and central locking was leaning over and pushing the button on the opposite door. Now I can lock/unlock the car from anywhere in the world using the phone. That level of automation and technology is wonderful. However, it's wonderful because I can choose to use it or not.

Cars designed 40 to 50 years ago had very little mechanical grip compared to modern cars but due to their design, really flagged what the car was going to do. The result was that drivers felt what the car was doing and felt it through the steering wheel, pedals and their arse. Modern cars have very high mechanical grip by comparison and are a lot more insulating from the mechanicals when driving. Result is that people don't feel the signals from the car and don't know how to react when something goes wrong. Also, when something does go wrong now, it's usually a lot quicker and at higher speeds compared to 40/50 year old car designs.

The lane departure in the current car (222 Octavia) is annoying as it often picks up seams and cracks in the surface of the road. It also doesn't like narrow roads and is constantly twitching, makeing the car feel unsettled. I have driven the new 242 version with all the extra mandatory safety stuff and hated the speed limiter. Also, I've no choice on these. They turn on EVERY TIME I start the car!

The worst thing is the overly strong ESP and skid control. At about 20kph, the back of the car stepped out on ice over the winter. From learning to drive on cars where the right foot was the traction control, I did the obvious thing and stamp on the throttle (the front had grip so acceleration should pull the back of the car straight). The car decided "no" and wouldn't accelerate. Even stamping on and off and on the accelerator wouldn't make it move. Result was a nasty scrape on a wheel off a kerb....

magicbastarder

Result is that people don't feel the signals from the car and don't know how to react when something goes wrong. Also, when something does go wrong now, it's usually a lot quicker and at higher speeds compared to 40/50 year old car designs.

40 or 50 years ago the number of road deaths in Ireland was nearly 4 times today's figure.

Hailtothethief

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122375725#Comment_122375725

Yep, when the crumple zone was your legs!

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122375725#Comment_122375725

Idiots invariably get themselves killed, it's a fact of life and no government or legislation can change that.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122375835#Comment_122375835

That last line in the post you quoted would seem to disprove your contention. Especially since there are many multiples of the number of cars on the road now compared to then.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376188#Comment_122376188

Anyone can cherry pick a singular statistic as evidence to their point, moreover there are a variety of variables at play and one can not hinge it all on the advent of new technology. Differences in infrastructure, driver education, enforcement of preexisting legislation etc.

My response was to say that if an experienced driver doesn't want to have these features foisted upon them because idiots exist then they absolutely have the right to refuse having it mandated on them. Least of all by people who use statistics that upset them to fear monger.

magicbastarder

then they absolutely have the right to refuse having it mandated on them.

Um, I have bad news for you on how the world works.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376296#Comment_122376296

I don't need to "cherry pick" statistics. These are facts. Unless you're going to argue that mandatory seat belt use did not in fact save lives? Or ABS? Or ESC?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376582#Comment_122376582

No I understand perfectly well how authoritarianism works, I learned about the history of the twentieth century in school just like everyone else did. I just happen to utterly despise it rather than be in lockstep with it.

magicbastarder

This thread has taken a weird turn.

LIGHTNING

Back on track folks. Lets leave the big brother stuff to other forums. Thanks.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376603#Comment_122376603

That cherry picking comment wasn't directed at you.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376661#Comment_122376661

You opened the door, I just walked through it.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376714#Comment_122376714

Ah so it's okay to advocate the abuse of legislative powers to infringe on individual freedoms but when that gets rebutted it's "big brother stuff", right…..

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376894#Comment_122376894

You're kind of taking an instance of ESC deployment a bit far, aren't you? You do know you can switch it off? But you really shouldn't. Maybe this video will help you understand how it works and how to work with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjifbIayHt4

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376907#Comment_122376907

It's optional now, but the end goal is mandated by law to be standard from factory and necessary to be road worthy. Which would mean you won't be able to opt out or switch it off.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122374346#Comment_122374346

I quite agree. We have a twelve year old VW, it has all the instruments and controls that you need. They are well proportioned, easy to use and built to last. ABS brakes and airbags in the background etc.

We also have a two year old VW and frankly it's full of several bells & whistles that amount to needless distracting junk. We don't need multiple options to change the screen display, lane assist, park assist, speed limiters. Nor an infotainment system that requires fiddling by drivers. A simple radio/ CD player was fine, maybe with USB. We don't need beeps coming on when driving or distracting messages flashing up. It's the car equivalent of bloatware.

Frankly if you can't keep within your lane on a road and/or can't reverse or parallel park - then you shouldn't be driving.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376929#Comment_122376929

So you didn't watch that video then.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376956#Comment_122376956

You and I aren't partaking in the same conversation at all. And I've already explained this to you before on this very thread so I'll remind you. I don't disagree with the existence of the technology, I disagree with the proposal that all of it should be mandated as essential from factory. Stop putting words in my mouth. I couldn't be any clearer about what I am saying if a I tried. So no I didn't waste my time with it because it has nothing to do with what I am actually talking about.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122377022#Comment_122377022

You disagree with its implementation. Which means you disagree with the technology. You can't say that the safety feature is fine, but you don't want to be made use it. That's back to the "I won't wear my seat belt" crap. Just with a newer badge on it.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122377049#Comment_122377049

There you go putting words in my mouth again, I disagree with the legally enforced implementation of anything beyond Seatbelts, ABS, Traction Control, and Airbags. All of this self thinking computer stuff should remain as optional extras that you can add to your vehicle if you want. As I've already stated before in my previous replies to you.