I won’t worry. But I may be right. OP had a test drive. Based on that he may not be eligible for a refund 😀
But I hope it made you feel that bit better so your nonsense stalking posts don’t go unnoticed big man.
Tesla have added very specific wording to their Irish Order Agreements (see below) to address the scenario that have been discussed. Whether a specific contractual element specified in the Order Agreement (Contract) ranks ahead of any statutory rights is not something I am opining on but thought it useful to share to inform the debate given the specificity of the wording
That was my interpretation alright. And I’ve gotten 2 deposits back from Tesla using the distance selling rule.
“distance contract” means a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, and with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded
I think the important time is when the contract is concluded. Echo the views to send this into the small claims if there is any guff from Tesla.
(I’m not the EU any more than I’m UEFA, I’m just a person)
I think you'll find that the difficult arises with the following part of your definition if you test the drive the car in person as you haven't exclusively used distance communications if you've attended the premised for a physical inspection as part of the sale "with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication"
with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication"
without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer,
This will be key here. Whether the actual presence of the OP at a test drive before buying constitutes physical presence. They tried to get around it by booking the test drive in one name and then ordering in another.
So is a test drive considered physical presence?
this is from the uk, but may have some bearing here considering the structure of our legal system,
This is no longer classed as a distance sale, as you’ve had the opportunity to view the car before deciding to buy it. Therefore, the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 will not apply in this instance.
I don’t think it can change the fact the contract was concluded online and there was no element of negotiation or barter in person (this is Tesla). One might argue your point more convincingly in the case of dealing with franchised dealers negotiating like hell and sealing the deal electronically.
you can’t contract out of the distance selling either of you are a consumer, so anything on the Tesla website is not likely to hold up.
+1
I agree. That was always my interpretation.
I’m sure the local DJ will really care about your interpretation. You might get a job as an expert witness yet.
What works out better, PCP or HP?
Both at 0.99% and with similar deposit, the cost of finance figure are more or less the same (however everything is based on the wrong on-road price etc). I guess PCP would cost less per month for the period of PCP with the final payment (12k-ish) compared to HP which locks in the full amount into a 5 year loan.
Never bought a car on finance before, slightly clueless. What's the general consensus here.
Give it a rest will ya. Get over the fact i ridiculed the EU ending up with Chinese funding through the euro24 funding program and you are now dragging that childish argument across threads.
So maybe report me again or shut up.
You’ve been shown where the Op falls short of distance selling rules yet all you continue to do is attack me. Idiotic behaviour. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Thats a secondary point and perhaps irrelevant. Tesla's contactual provisions are clear and state that where the purchaser has ordered following a Test Drive then "this Agreement shall not have been entered into by using means of distance communication and consequently you will not have the statutory cancellation right described herein "
The scenario that you mention as to timing of conclusion is a moot point in circumstances where the agreement was not entered into by means of distance communication. In conclusion the wording is crystal clear in its intent…whether this contractual term is capable of overriding a statutory right is another matter but there is zero doubt about what it is saying.
That’s the point though; it can’t override the regulation IF the buyer is a consumer. See regulation 39 & 40
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/si/484/made/en/print
(Edit to include correct link)
I never mentioned anything about the euros here? You did. I said you were wrong on your interpretation of European law.
Time will tell.
“distance contract” means a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, and with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded;
So the OP visited the dealers and then placed a deposit online it will come down to interpretation on whether it’s a distance contract or not.
Anyway. Off to Joe Duffy with ya and spill it out on air
Define better.
Hp, you pay more per month but at the end, you own the car. Pcp, you pay less per month and after the term, you go again, hand back the car or buy it fom the finance company.
Depends On what your long term plan is really.
Pcp has been best summed up by many as a way to sell folks who can't afford it, a car.
Probably best to do the sums yourself.
Yes. I was trying to tease out why it is a distance contract in my view. Your posts just lower the quality of the conversation and unlike others here make no effort to actually grasp the issues.
You haven’t exactly escalated the thread to the high heavens. More ranting and raving from you and sly dismissive comments. Go have a Kit Kat or something.
I told the op Immediately to escalate it to the uk team, providing an email address to go to. In fact I’ve given that countless people by pm along with the wording to use to get a refund. I hope the OP gets it back. But hey, you continue your angry little man rants.
An entity can't make a contract term to bypass a statutory right. They can say stuff and hope it sticks and can even try to persuade people the contract trumps their rights, but it doesn't. The word "simultaneous" in the regs is what will matter. The only way Tesla could get around this is if the order was placed in the presence of one or more of their staff.
You need to familiarise yourself with the differences as comparing PCP to HP is like comparing an Apple to an Orange..both are fruit but very different. The interest rate is similar to both but HP is a loan where you pay off the full amount borrowed by equal monthly repayments for the term and at the end of the term you own the car.
In contrast PCP can appear attractive as there are lower monthly repayments but at the end of the term there is a large "balloon" payment due before you own the car. You may benefit from lower monthly repayments but you are postponing a major decision to the end of the term. You can usually pay the ballon and take ownership, hand the car back or enter a new PCP.
Anyone having Bluetooth issues connecting with car lately? Since update yesterday, our phones don't connect. The App does its thing, but won't connect to drive or lock when walking away. Reboot of car and phone didnt work. Opened a ticket.
There was 2 Teslas at my house yesterday, both on the latest .7 software and no issues with Bluetooth. One thing I found was some settings changed or defaulted to off, ambient lights for example.
if you're disciplined to divert the difference between the PCP and HP payment into a savings account like trade Republic you'll be better off as long as deposit rates remain higher than the loan finance rate.
If yes, go PCP with 10k kilometres annual . The 10/15/20k annual allowances don't matter unless you're handing the car back at the end of the term and you've done 160k kilometres instead of 80k.
Total amount payable is the figure to look at regardless of what option you choose
All I know is that during Covid, dealers would often send walk around videos and value trade ins over the phone and deliver the car to the customers door. But before singing the sales contract they would make the customer test drive the car at their home therefore avoiding any distance selling rules. I feel like the same will apply in the Tesla scenario but obviously it was booked under a different name so they may well get their money back
Yes I remember that. Off premise selling or something.
I hope he gets it back but I would escalate to the email address i posted earlier. Maybe they can bypass the Irish store. That’s why processed my refunds.
@Gumbo would you be able to pm me the email address and wording please?
I’m also having a battle getting the refund out of Tesla.
Thanks
Sent
Update: Manager from Cork showroom called and reiterated that the deposit would not be refundable and tried to lie saying my wife had test drove the vehicle.
I told him that I could pull the call recording whereby his salesman agreed that the deposit was 100 percent refundable if we were to cancel. Situation magically solved and refund is due back to us in the coming days. How this man can try and barefaced lie to customers everyday amazes me that he's still in a job.
Amazing how they can just blatantly lie to hold onto deposits until you present them with evidence to call their bluff.
Got the happy hedgehog here and went thru the trade-in and put in a PCP application. Let it all happen on it's own time. How's the trade-in offer from Tesla typically for 6-7 year petrol cars? I am expecting zilch tbh. Probably better to sell private. Oh well.
PS: Who am I kidding. I can't wait. First electric car. First new car.
Great news. I would escalate the treatment to the email address I posted earlier to you. They are the UK/IRL Customer Care Team.
Companies will only get away with this if continued to be allowed to do so.
