He's the stand in captain. Ryan and Ringrose are the captains. If Ryan had been able to start, I'd assume he'd have been captain for the final.
The captaincy issue at the weekend was weird. Doris did approach Pearce repeatedly but the relationship was damaged from the off. On their very first interaction after becoming captain (which I think was the Marx turnover in the 22), Doris questioned something (I think it was the MVS not rolling which prevented Beirne and Doris from getting access to Marx/the ball). Pearce immediately spoke to him like a child "Don't make me go, don't make me go. That's now three times. Next time we go 10 metres". Image of that incident is below. That's MVS with his legs sticking out as he kills the ball whilst Marx is on it. Beirne is slapping him on the back too, highlighting the issue but no official calls it.
Doris probably should have been more selective in approaching Pearce but there were 3 incidents within 10 minutes that he could feel his side were fairly harshly treated. I'd expect a captain to be speaking to the ref at any single one of them. But Pearce was on edge in all of them and spoke fairly poorly to him on each.
Any one of those incidents, I'd be disappointed in any captain not trying to interject. On each occasion, Doris was respectful in his demeanour and language but needed to know when he was not going to get anything and Pearce was not in the mood for any discussion. Even for his disallowed try, Doris said he had grounded it for a split second (and replays appeared to confirm this) but you could sense the annoyance from Pearce at having to check it and he was very curt and direct in his instruction to Whitehouse which, I felt, probably played a part in how quickly they checked that and dismissed it.
I'm not sure any change of captain would be beneficial at this point. Leave POM in place for this weekend, obviously but I don't think there's any Irish player who wouldn't have been growing frustrated with the decisions and lack of engagement from the officials in these situations. Beirne was absolutely exasperated with Raynal against Exeter I recall and had to be eventually waved away after speaking to him repeatedly. I recall a few years back where POM (and it's an absolute credit to him) removed himself from speaking with the referee and asked Stander to communicate instead as he was losing his cool and the relationship was damaged.
What one of the podcasts mentioned (and I think it's fairly reasonable) is that we seem to have a particular issue with the English referees. These guys obviously work together and often operate as a team. No different to any colleagues, they'll discuss their experiences after matches and in training together. I wonder if there isn't something of a belief between them that the Leinster/Ireland teams need to be kept in check and to be strict in your dealings with them. I normally find Pearce an affable operator with good communication but he was extremely snippy at the weekend.
Yeah, tbh I was shocked he played on from this hit. Felt as soon as I saw it he would be off the field, it was an enormous collision.
He doesn’t need to be captain at Leinster to be Irish captain, and where are the multiple examples of him getting on the wrong side of refs?
He and Pearce were both audibly frustrated with one another on Saturday, but Doris absolutely had good reason to be. This point has been reinforced by Andy Farrell’s comments post game and numerous reports in the media (including from neutral media outlets like the Guardian etc) commenting on the problematic aspects of Pearce and his team’s performance.
The tone Pearce took with Doris was totally unacceptable.
Doris is an experienced player who is really well respected, a nailed on starter and could be a long term appointment for Ireland. He’s an obvious contender for captain.
Not good that our medics checked Henshaw out and allowed him play on, Pearce did well to stop the game immediately to get the medics on.
i'm just listening to all the podcasts today. The Doris captaincy thing confuses me. Is he the captain at Leinster? I know they have co captains and such but not sure if they settled on him by end of season. If he is Captain at Leinster, why not give him year to nail all these nuances that are supposedly putting him on the wrong side of refs, and just let him figure it out in a less pressure filled environment. Beirne could do it for a year and refs seem to like him. Get Doris settled in next summer.
Impact at peak, he's our best LHP ever already imo.
He also had a pretty successful Lions tour in 2021 (three years after he came home), having been picked as and playing exclusively as a flanker.
Coombes and Hodnett would have won us this tour
Very possible ya, may also just be recency bias but i think porters so so good
Kleyn is not at a similar level to Ryan. Let’s just leave it at that
I think that we'll see generally shorter careers, especially for attritional positions, in top level rugby. Despite the increase in international fixtures guys reaching a century of international caps will soon become a thing of the past.
Ah, John Eales, now there was a mighty lock.
I think porter could overtake healy as our best lh ever which i never thought id see
No I don't think it was unreasonable, though to be fair I didn't think he was capable of playing at 5 as opposed to just being better at 6. I genuinely thought he didn't have it to play second row, but I never doubted his ability to play international rugby.
I don't think it was an unreasonable view for the time though. I hate the phrase "proven people wrong" - I still think based off his performances for the Scarlets the judgement made sense.
In fairness, that wasn't unreasonable given his performances at 6 and 8 with Scarlets, and his biggest edge over other Irish locks is his turnover work at the breakdown which you would normally associate with back-rows.
And in fairness, he's been needed at second-row more than back-row, we have struggled for depth in the second row last few years whereas we're always overflowing with flankers. If it was the other way around, maybe Beirne would have stayed at 6.
Thinking a guy would be a better 6 than 5 is hardly criticism anyway, is it?
Well, no because leinster have one of the best front rows in world rugby (the best?) imo while Munster's is mediocre if i was being extremely generous. This is all subjective of course, but when i see leinster's front row i see elite and a ton of good but not elite in the second row. I'm fine with people disagreeing with that. If you swapped front rows though… it would be interesting. Porter especially would be one of the biggest upgrades of all time.
I'd definitely keep beirne. This thought experiment is unfair to mccarthy because his skillset is way more unusual in ireland than south africa. A part of me wonders if he would be an SA 8. Because he's less unique there he'd need to tidy up his game though. Ryan at this stage in his career is similar level to Jean Kleyn. So, it would depend on who they preferred.
A lot of people did…
I was one of these - I thought he'd end up at 6.
Ah well, nobody's perfect.
100%. Now he's easily our best second row since POC and one of our best ever.
Just saw that!
I don't get the point here. Ryan has a lot of silverware, McCarthy is just starting his career. To use your point, if Kleyn/Beirne are as good as .... Munster would have silverware falling out of their trousers!
Leinster have got to 3 euro finals in a row with Ryan. Ireland have just won the 6nations with Ryan and McCarthy? It's beyond a doubt that both Ryan and McCarthy are fantastic players. Not winning silverware is not down to them.
Team is named, completely unchanged.
For sure. You could argue that both teams could've done more experimentation - but I don't think you could say either team hasn't done anything experimental.
We've got 4 superb locks. Each have different facets that they excel in. McCarthy has power and strength, Beirnes has the engine and runs the best lines, Ryan is the better tackler and rucker and Henderson is probably just below their level.
The Team has been announced
And Ireland had Osborne (new cap), Nash (6 caps), McCarthy (10 caps), Frawley (4 caps).
It's entirely comparable.
Roos may come in. Kwagga to the bench.
It'd be bloody fun though 😁
Word, had forgotten that lol. Prendergast or Izzy would be a solid option too
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