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Child Item

RTÉ Investigates Girls in Green

Oscar_Madison

In conjunction with Irish Independent- I happened to read the 5 pages of accounts in todays paper - an extremely sad accounts of alleged inappropriate sexual behaviour of certain coaches within the FAI ladies team.

Having worked at that time and before, such behaviour wasn’t confined to ladies sport- it was rife in many companies - young women hit on by older men in charge.

Apparently there’s one criminal related investigation opened by Gardai relating to this investigation.

If the programme on RTÉ later this evening is anything like the 5 page read today, it will be grim viewing- but great to hear voices heard for the first time in 25+ years

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2024/0706/1458624-it-wasnt-safe-life-in-the-irish-womens-squad-in-the-1990s/

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Deregos.

Another new Irish sports scandal, and yet George Gibney is still walking around a free man.

https://villagemagazine.ie/time-to-nail-us-based-swimming-coach-paedophile-george-gibney/

[Deleted User]

Lets wait and see. From the articles it is certainly grim. Eamonn collins and mick cooke have denied all allegations.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352218#Comment_122352218

He can deny all he likes but Collins has some questions to answer.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1458621/

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352198#Comment_122352198

100 percent agree absolute scumbag, wouldn't count on the DPP doing much but who knows…

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/11/01/file-sent-to-dpp-after-garda-investigation-into-fresh-george-gibney-abuse-allegations/

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352238#Comment_122352238

Absolutely.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352198#Comment_122352198

Funny I was randomly thinking of this today. I swam on the circut as a child and was selected for provincial squads when I was 12 (87?) so a weekend training for times and qualifications and Gibney was the provincial squad coach. I had this really intense recall of all of us being in the changing rooms when the older girls started shouting and I look up to see one of the coaches run right through the ladies changing room from pool side to the exit. There were expletitives expressed and he was told to get the fook out :) Mad what pops into your head on an otherwise calm Sunday afternoon.

Beechwoodspark

Harrowing viewing last night - you’d have to wonder how those poor women actually played football when you see the context of what the coaches were “up to”.

Utterly sleazy carry on.

Drinking and partying every weekend and coaches going home with players - so inappropriate.

Did these men actually have an interest in coaching or was it all about access to young women for them??

I fear - mainly because of the length of time, and perhaps lack of evidence (talk of missing or non existent records) since the allegations - no criminal proceedings will arise.

Oscar_Madison

FAI media briefing this morning.

In terms of any criminal proceedings out of this, whilst a lot of the accounts were about “predatory” and “inappropriate” behaviour, there was certainly one account at least, that was clearly sexual assault in some way in my view- whether this actually gets prosecuted remains to be seen but there is a Garda investigation underway.

We’re in unusual territory here- we’re hearing about inappropriate relationships with named individuals, but not necessarily “illegal” relationships in the main.
Wonder are there other stories waiting to be told about maybe GAA coaches from 20/30 years ago?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0708/1458744-fai/

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353457#Comment_122353457

Whilst I was watching the program last night, without intending to diminish any of what these girls had gone through, I couldn't help but think that the totally inappropriate behaviour is being viewed retrospectively by the standards in place today rather than the (lack of) standards in place at the time.

I would imagine if you cast a microscopic focus on many sports at the time (swimming has already been referenced) including GAA (and including other youth organisations) you would find multiple examples of hearsay, assault induced trauma and even evidence of totally inappropriate behaviour. I was just thinking also that unfortunately many of these were vulnerable young women rather than minors (so no child protection issues arising) and this also predated the sort of widespread and widely accepted misogony and dismissal of woman that was evidenced say in Taoiseach Albert Reynolds standing up in the Dail and saying "That's women for ya" (Not to mention CJH prepared to ride anything that took his fancy) or Kenny Everett getting irked by critical comments by Sinead O Connor on the Late Late show and responding with snide veiled suggestions that he could derail her career, if he so wanted (not to mention uncle Gaybo's often patronising and chauvinistic approach to the likes of Sinead and Annie Murphy amongst two memorable guests)

There are a multitude of now pension aged men (and probably some women) and plenty of deceased persons also who served in positions of responsibility in the 1970-90's and engaged in totally inappropriate behaviour towards some of their charges. And again, without trying to diminish those actions, these were the same time that coaches packed 10 people into their car without seatbelts to bring them to a match or an athletic meet for the want of the cost of a bus, or that a coach had no qualms whatsoever about picking a child up, or hugging them to acknowledge a victory, or rubbing away a pain, all actions that whilst relatively innocent then, are absolutely no go areas now when framed by today's standards, just saying.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353559#Comment_122353559

I think the behaviour of the past was predatory and would have been classed as predatory, even then - it was never acceptable by society but there was limited actions that could have been taken at the time - people just didn’t know the full extent of what was happening - as we can see in this case, many of the women thought they were the only ones impacted -without these stories we only have theoretical safeguards - these are real life examples of alleged inappropriate behaviour and illustrate why we need safeguards and codes of conduct.etc So they should be heard.

But quite simply, many of these stores have yet to be told- so to your point, there was never an opportunity to test the standards at that time simply because the victims remained silent and in turmoil.

This sort of behaviour was rife in large companies - maybe small companies too who knows - where people in authority took advantage of young females starting out in the workplace. I wonder is this the start of something greater- where people tell their stories of exploitative behaviour in the workplace- I guess a thread could be started here on boards but is reliant on enough people of a certain age to contribute to obtain an historical account.

[Deleted User]

Could be the next "Me too" movement. I'd say a lot of people looking over their shoulders waiting for the knock on the door.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353690#Comment_122353690

I was thinking that myself- I reckon this will expand over time into other areas- large Irish corporates, other sports like GAA- they’re the sort of stories that have been told in Hollywood under the “casting couch” heading for many years now- we’re still seeing these stories coming out daily around on-set inappropriate behaviour 20 or so years ago or so. The difference now is, those accused of inappropriate but not necessarily illegal behaviour, are being named.

Hopefully anyone now in their early 60s onwards who was involved in such behaviour, are starting to become a bit uneasy.

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353665#Comment_122353665

Yep, I would agree with you that predatory behaviour was always thus and was often hiding in plain sight as there was neither the tools or the inclination to address it. From my teenage years in the eighties one heard plenty of stories from both girls and boys who knew of certain people who you made sure you were never caught alone with. The majority of young people quickly developed an intuition along with an informal communication network as to how to be careful but unfortunately the vulnerable or peripheral "different" kids frequently became the victims of these predators.

I remember in the wake of the Blackrock boys revelations I dipped into Bob Geldof's contemporanious autobiography 'Is that it?' to see if there was any hint or suggestion of inappropriate behaviour. As it happens, he does reference his interactions with one of the perpetrators but the truth is Geldof was even then probably too saavy and streetwise and too much of a mouth for anyone to try anything on with him (Mind you he also documents how he lost his virginity to an older neighbour, which was also disturbing predatory behaviour, albeit with Geldof as a seemingly willing participant). However he does reference a class mate of his who later committed suicide and one would wonder was there any connection there?

We could all indeed cite cases, albeit relatively minor of incidence in our youth where we felt uncomfortable or felt that the behaviour of adults was inappropriate towards us or others in our company. Thankfully, for the majority of us, we were able to extract ourselves from such situations, but I acknowledge that not everyone was so fortunate.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353559#Comment_122353559

I agree with you. The behaviour was never acceptable. People back then knew that too but official condemnation was non existent. No culture of condemnation.

I wonder why the victims didn't complain in the last few years? The culture is different now

gormdubhgorm

When I heard the part about the black plastic bags to lose weight and players being called fat. I immediately thought of Paul Gascoigne "Gazza". He had to do that to lose weight. Even back when he was a young player for Newcastle, Jack Charlton put pressure on him to lose weight. That was the done thing regardless of gender.

As for the inappropriate relationships between players and manager with an age gap etc, it always seems blurred among the different genders. Vera Pauw (Former women's Dutch international and Irish manager) married her coach Bert van Lingen with a 17 year age difference.

Plus these days there is the issue of same sex relationships between teammates, which can result in problems on and off the pitch particularly if they break down.

csirl

All too often, people who complain are regarded as an inconvenience. There is still a sweep it under the carpet attitude in many sectors of sport - and this is more prevelent at the top rather than grassroots. There are organisations today who still dont take vetting etc seriously and try to bend the rules to pass obvious fails.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353457#Comment_122353457

My sister played on a very successful inter county football team during the 90s, I would know nearly all her teammates.

I would also know the men involved on the coaching management side.

I never heard a word about anything like this. Keep in mind many women/girls played inter county at 15/16 but there would always have been a cohort of older women.

I think the set up here were most of the women were strangers to each other which would be different to a club/county set up left them a little exposed.

Also their social/employment status might have left them a little more vulnerable to being exploited.

For many years I trained in the same ground with the men's team, and there was always a divide separation. i.e. the gaa field wasn't a dating opportunity.

In college, with younger teams since I've stopped playing I've never heard of anything like this. Typically there would always be much older women involved in a coaching/selection role which also probably helped to keep predators at bay.

It has probably happened over the years with gaa but I never saw it

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355339#Comment_122355339

That’s a reassuring post- hopefully it’s a universal experience in the main - and yes, the FAS course situation was certainly unique - it’s hard to imagine wide scale exploitation would happen in a town or village without it being widely known and discussed

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355367#Comment_122355367

I think the abuse perpetrated by the Catholic Church in Ireland shows exactly how small towns and villages could house and in some cases protect abusers. Given the close association between the church and the GAA I won’t be surprised if stories emerge as a result of the fallout from the FAI case. Predators were involved in any activity that for them close to victims.

This is an old article but it’s well worth a read to see how communities and the great and the good worked to protect abusers - https://m.independent.ie/news/the-bishop-comiskey-controversy/26056900.html

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355367#Comment_122355367

Where's there's a power imbalance or a coach can make or break a career there's always the risk of exploitation.

Any hanger's on with creeping tendancies were quickly spotted by the women. Women in groups are usually good at that.

The only dates my sister was asked out on in a dressing room or around training was by other players😁. Gay women are probably over represented in field sports I would think.

csirl

During this era, the Irish Sports Councils standard response to anyone raising issues about any difficult topic was that they didnt want any "noise in the system" (their expression).

With this sort of attitude coming from the top, its not surprising that we've had a succession of scandals in Irish sport. Nobody, except those causing "noise in the system" feared intervention or cuts to funding for bad behaviour in their organisation.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355450#Comment_122355450

I take your point wholeheartedly in that institutions of the day did certainly collude either formally or informally to make “issues” go away - what I will say is, if there are “stories” to be told in the towns and villages throughout Ireland, they’ll certainly get a hearing now- though I hope it will be isolated incidents at most - even then, too many.

[Deleted User]

The mention of FAS was all I needed.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355469#Comment_122355469

I was listening to a discussion a while ago about some of the factors associated with being the victim of sexual assault and one of the most common was the absense of a father or male parental figure in the persons life. Usually the perp hones in on these victims as they don't fear any repercussions from an angry protective male. (my own father wasn't dead a month when a relative and one of his closest friends made a move in my home, whilst offering their condolances on my loss) They're a special kind of dirtbag.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355450#Comment_122355450

The GAA has safe guarding in place and child protection procedures for a long time.

Soccer is no where still at that level from what I can see. I've kids with two different soccer clubs and they would regularly look for helpers from the sidelines which certainly doesn't happen with the GAA club.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355846#Comment_122355846

again whilst only an anecdote it’s a good reflection on the GAA

Strumms

we here don’t know what happened, if anything.

but as I see it the greatest obstacle to any criminal investigation leading to arrests and convictions would be the passage of time.

More than a quarter of a century has passed since the alleged incidents.

So judges and jury’s and defence teams would be VERY aware as to how unreliable recollections of details and events would be after that time. A competent defence lawyer could have a field day with any inconsistency or hesitancy or lack of being absolute in the evidence given.

Also who bears the financial burden ? The accusers the alleged perpetrators or the state ie. us citizens ? I’ve no idea but would like to know.

My problem is not people seeking justice, if they’ve been wronged, it’s waiting two and a half decades, over a quarter of a century to look for it……

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356309#Comment_122356309

This story has mostly nothing to do with “justice”- many of the accounts will be found to be consensual so no crime- at least one account will likely be found to be criminal in my view - but this story is not about criminal behaviour in the main - it’s about inappropriate behaviour, exploitation, dominance of those in a position of power over you in some way and such concepts - way before any legislation was in place -it’s way beyond “justice”- it’s freedom.

And sorry but:

“we here don’t know what happened, if anything.”

What The Fcuk?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356331#Comment_122356331

if nothing to do with justice, yet you believe “at least one account will likely to be found criminal”..

Bit of a contradiction…

They have enabled themselves to be disadvantaged by doing nothing in the intervening years.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356350#Comment_122356350

I said “mostly” nothing to do with justice so quote accurately or don’t quote at all - Don’t even think of deflecting - you made a shameful victim blaming post above - don’t even think of quoting my posts again I want nothing to do with you