Guys, I’m just wondering what’s your current situation like?
I work and retail in the west of Ireland and here it seems there’s a new shop closing down nearly every week, and people seem to be struggling. Are we getting into another recession?
I worked in a job 30 years ago and got 200 punts a week and my rent was 30 punts a week , 15% of my disposable income The person doing that exact same job today who I met lately gets 600 Euro but their rent is 300 Euro a week - 50% of their disposable income .
Their wages are 3 times my wages but their rent is 10 times what my rent was !!
Nothing, it makes sense I suppose. But it also means 'privilege' is nothing.
It's like saying we're all rich. And we're all poor. We're all beautiful. We're all ugly.
The words, their meaning, all rendered meaningless.
Maybe on this thread I'm on my own, and that's fine. I know I have people on my side when it comes to knowing what privilege is. In my opinion, it's always good to be aware of what you have and be thankful for it.
Do you think I think people pay off a mortgage undeservedly or something? Or that people who manage to pay off a mortgage are lucky or something? Not at all. Hard work should be rewarded, and a house and pension should be the pinnacle of a life well lived.
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognise the privilege we have had to do that, as it's something that many won't be able to achieve.
For example, every birthday, I recognise the privilege of having a birthday and what has been involved in me taking another trip around the sun. Many haven't reached my age. Out of my year in school, nearly 30 people (out of 130 or so) have passed away over the years, from car accidents, suicides, drug overdoses, and accidents.
Anyway, have a good night, I'm bowing out of this thread. I often find on boards that these "discussions" generally turn into circle jerks, and I don't fancy that tonight.
Someone who hasn't a penny compared to someone like Musk, isn't privileged, financially.
That same person, if they have 2 legs, are privileged, compared to a wheelchair bound user.
Just because you have privilege in one area, doesn't mean, you lead a privileged life as a whole.
So you consider yourself privileged?
Anyone can pay off a mortgage
No, this isn't some circle jerk.
You just started out calling having paid off a mortgage an "extreme privilege" and didn't back down.
I think your bowing out because you’ve had the privilege of realising you don’t actually understand the meaning of privilege 🤣🤣
"An advantage to a person or group" not the norm in everyday socity so
Indeed but it takes a lot of work. Even more work to pay it off early.
Doesn't always take hard work
It does for the working class
I think there are 2 categories, the first are the people probably 40 and over, the majority would have houses from the Celtic tiger years when the banks were giving out money no issue. Although they have a mortgage it would be low enough in most cases with the majority of money now spent on childcare, food expenses, socialising. The under 40s due to the lack of housing and I suppose different times and culture are more likely to be still at home, compared to leaving college, getting a job and leaving home they are more stay at home with mammy and daddy. For some I know they just can’t get a house, keep getting outbid, others are just happy to have the income without much expense due to mammy snd daddy still paying for everything
Well yeah I suppose so. Some people are just privileged 🤣
Hard when all your friends are married off, having children and not available to spread the cost 🤷♀️ actually looking to go on a solo trip there and you're paying for a room for 2 despite it only being for yourself, price for 1 is the same as price for 2. I looked up deals on Groupon for a few nights away abroad and deal is only for 2 people so I'd have to pay double the cost, can't win
In 2022, the average disposable income of the households in the top decile was 3,053 per week.
Are you clear on how disposable income is defined?
Please see the table below.
Top decile per week, on average, all at household level
Wages = 3,133
Total gross market income = 5,048
plus social transfers = 156 per week
less direct taxes = 2,151 per week, God Bless these people, they are keeping the country going
That leaves disposable income of 3,053 per week, which is then either spent or saved.
Grand, so the figures quoted are the results of survey taken from a sample of people. I've heard of it alright. But it's not gospel either.
I know for a fact that I've never been asked to sum our expenditure of some notion of essential outgoings that would lead to some deduction of what our disposable income is. Have you, has anyone on this thread?
So while the results are interesting, I wouldn't regard them as proof of anything much other than the results of a survey.
I would understand disposable income to be income after bills are paid. Money to dispose of as you will.
Ireland is staggeringly wealthy and relatively expensive.
As a teenager in the 1950s, my mother studied by candlelight. There was no toilet indoors in her house, at that time.
She couldn't afford a particular textbook, and the neighbours would not lend it to her, so she often walked about 2km each way to a classmate to borrow the book.
She saved while working, aged 18-30.
At about age 30-35, when married, she bought a fairly typical semi-D, with her savings and a local authority mortgage.
If anybody suggests to me that she is privileged, they are bonkers.
Your comments do not really match your title! There will eventually be another recession but nothing on the horizon as of yet and give that 9 out 10 businesses fail even in good times, so it is not really surprising for shops to pop up and close down on a regular basis….
Broke has a very different meaning for many people, how would you define it?
I get what you mean, many people (not all) that have been fortunate to escape chronic illness are luckily and respectfully ignorant
We're near the top for net take home pay and social welfare payments.
If you pay people more, it has to come from somewhere.
Exclude alcohol and cigarettes and I think we are about 6th or 7th.
Yes, this can be confusing.
In economics, in the CSO, and in this thread, disposable income is before you spend a penny.
It is after the State intervene by paying out social transfers and charging direct taxes.
The earnings data is not based on a survey of people. It is based on a survey of firms (mean earnings) and on admin data (mean and median earnings)
The income data is based on a survey of households, see below:
In 2022 the SILC sample moved from a 5-year to a 6-year rotational sample, with both a cross-sectional and a longitudinal element. Households interviewed for the first time are Wave 1 households. Households who are interviewed in subsequent years are Wave 2 households (2nd year in the sample), Wave 3 households (3rd year in the sample), Wave 4 (4th year in the sample), Wave 5 (5th year in the sample), or Wave 6 (6th and final year in the sample). The initial sample design attempts to seed the sample with 20% for each new wave. However, due to non-response and sample attrition the waves are not evenly balanced in the sample with Wave 1 households usually tending to dominate.
The overall response rate for the SILC survey in 2023 was 36.9%. The response rate is heavily influenced by the Wave 1 response rate which was 23.9% in 2023. The response rates tend to be a lot higher for Wave 2-6 households and in 2023 the response rate for Wave 2-6 households was 59.2%.
In 2022 a new sampling methodology (which was further refined in 2023) was introduced to ensure SILC will be able to meet the precision requirements specified in the IESS regulation. Waves 1 and 2 of the SILC 2023 sample were selected using this methodology. In SILC 2023 Wave 3, 4, 5 and 6 comes from the 2018 sampling frame.
The following is a brief overview of the revised SILC sample methodology, from which Wave 1 of SILC 2023 was selected:
The Wave 1 sample methodology for SILC in 2022 was the same as the method used in 2023 with the following exception. In 2023, households were selected using probability proportional to size (PPS) of each strata. In 2022 households were selected using Neyman allocation. This involved allocating the sample across the strata according to the variability of income, where strata with large variance were allocated more of the sample.
The following is a brief overview of the 2014 SILC sample methodology, from which Waves 3-6 of SILC 2023 were selected:
I found it hard to believe at first but then you think of the entire suburbs of multi million homes and then it seems more plausible.
The statistics don't lie.
I'm not sure about another recession but there has been a good few people laid off recently that I know from different industries. For example my girlfriend was made redundant last week by an American company based in dublin. The company I work for is going to be letting people go in the near future. Looking like september.
THIS.. Wages gone up 3 times but rent up 10 times.. we are basically working for banks to pay interest on loans..
we are working for property owners be that yourself or worse again a landlord and to keep those property prices high
And a really well paid job usually. Also other personal circumstances come into it too. Like having fewer or no kids. Leaving frugally for a very long time etc. It is a sign of huge discipline for sure and I'm not sure whether most would put the more enjoyable parts of their lives on hold for a such a long period. And I don't blame them either.
Lads this debate really is all about the state of property ownership in the country. When you think that the banks or central bank won't take into account the fact the people are paying colossal rents when it comes to mortgage applications it's disgusting. All they are doing is propping up the sector by keeping as many in it as possible. It's disgraceful that someone can pay 2k per month rent but the bank won't give them a mortgage for 1100 or 1200. That's just completely wrong.
Your landlords mortgage won't pay itself you know. Won't anyone think of the poor landlords?
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