Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
Weren't you one of the posters who complained about the inexperience and lack of qualifications of Jack Chambers?
Yeah, FF said the same thing about FG. Even Martin used it as an electioneering ploy.
I spoke on why he was picked. Do you think changing the subject makes some kind of point?
Harris has lots of government experience, but I mean, look at his record.
You can hardly criticise the lack of qualifications and experience of Chambers and then almost immediately claim there is no issue with the lack of qualifications and experience of the opposition.
FWIW, Chambers has sat at Cabinet, how many of those in the opposition can say that?
FF said one thing before the last electiona and did the complete opposite. You can wheel out whatever excuses you want to justify that, but the fact is that's what they did. I've no doubt FF will have plenty of excuses to player to justify going into power with SF as well.
No. I'm not critical of their lack of experience or qualifications. That's something you interjected to suit your agenda.
I was saying we need a break from their, (FF/FG/Green) kind of experience.
FWIW, your analogy contradicts your point.
A: SD/SF aren't experienced enough
B: Jack Chambers inexperience isn't a problem.
But as I have pointed out in posts earlier in this thread, Jack Chambers is both qualified and experienced, something which the boy Pearse for example is not.
As I've pointed out, you mentioned SD/SF being inexperienced. I said we need a break from FF/FG/Greens kind of experience.
You are banging on about Jack Chambers.
Emer Higgins was only appointed a junior minister in April and she is sent out to blacken the Greens. Is she the new FG rottweiler now that Regina is gone to Europe after being the FG mouthpiece for years?
Fianna Fáil could of course have stayed out of government and we'd have had another election OR do what they did and that is the responsible decision,deal with the results the election threw up
SF meantime were irresponsibly running round the country having rallies basically shouting 'we've been robbed' whilst at the same time not being able to persuade anyone to go into government with them
I'm not sure what textbook on democracy they studied for that,probably one wrote by Maduru
Exactly, FF will always be happy to go into government no matter who it is. That's why I think suggestions they'd refuse to go in with SF are ludricious.
FG are the only major party who've refused to enter into government AFAIK.
It was called covid.
As I said, talk to someone in FF and see what they say. The decision is not MM, the fact you think it is shows you have no idea how FF works.
I refer to the covid comment. What was the plan? tell the population in the middle of a pandemic to return to the polls?
Well clearly you are wrong because they chose FG
There is nothing wrong with refusing to go into government and then being persuaded to do so
SF couldnt persuade anyone at the time the ship has sailed now if the polls are correct?
Go back as far as 2016 and you will find MM and FF saying they will not go into government with SF.
Even post last election the question was asked, MM gave some vague answer and then a FF spokesperson came out and said no way would they go into government with SF. This was when FG said they would go into opposition and it was up to the other to agree a government
SF met with Green Party before anyone else.
At the end of the day, SF managed to get not a single party in Ireland to join with them about forming a government, not one. Even when topping the polls by a huge number FF kepts saying they would not go into government with them
You can spin it whatever way you want but FF won't go into government with SF, I doubt any party in ireland will go into government with SF. That's a SF problem and not a government party so really should be on a seperate thread(one already in the politics forum on this exact subject)
They need to tell that to Micheal Martin then, who hasn't ruled out going into government with SF.
Again, clearly I'm not wrong since Micheal Martin hasn't ruled out a coalition with SF. Maybe you just need to tell Micheal that's he's wrong.
No need to go back as far as 2016, just go as far back as 2024 and you'll see he hasn't ruled out going into government with SF. And why would he? It's quite possible that could be the only way to form a stable government. Would FF just refuse and tell the electorate to go back to vote again until they stop voting for SF? Hardly. No one wins in that situation.
No need to tell MM anything, he has said it many times, latest just a few months ago
Seem's you hear what you want to hear.
I think you will find around the same time the new Minister for Finance came out and confirmed the grass roots wouldn't let FF join SF
Maybe you can share the informration you seem to have which says FF will join with SF
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/12/micheal-martin-repeats-position-fianna-fail-will-not-go-into-government-with-sinn-fein/#:~:text=T%C3%A1naiste%20Miche%C3%A1l%20Martin%20has%20repeated,the%20policy%20positions%20it%20holds.
The info i jave is the exact link you have posted. If SF is willing to do this, FF would go into a coalition with them.
Expanding on that theme when speaking to reporters, Mr Martin said Fianna Fáil could not negotiate with Sinn Féin “if it maintains policy positions they’ve been wanting to maintain on Europe, like it’s flip flopping on the whole area around the Middle East, for example, one week, they were not calling for the expulsion of the ambassador and the next week they were
Which is something SF won't do.
😂
It's funny, SF supporters are saying now they will vote for a party, which will then throw out all it beliefs and policies to get into bed with a party they hate
Why not just cut out the middle man and vote for FF?
Good to see you final admit FF would go into coalition with SF. Took you awhile, but we've finally gotten there.
He didn't admit that....
He asked you to vote FF if its them you want in government,why vote SF?
He has a point doesn't he because on current polling,voting for SF is as far away from voting for a government as ever
Quite a shocking incompetency for an opposition party
You think after Micheal Martin himself admitted they woukd go into government with FF the penny woukd drop for people, but clearly not just yet. 😂
He doesn't have a point. Voting for SF is voting for SF. I'm not sure why the both of you cant grasp that concept? It's not a complicated one tbh.
FF didn't rule out a SF coalition when asked by reporters
(In the background there were active negotiations going on with FG)
Reporters like embarassing politicians with questions like that When the politician cannot say they're not ruling SF out in public because they wanted to keep the screws on FG in negotiations
If you are reading what was said as a willingness to go into government with SF,you're welcome to it as a comfort blanket
It is delusion though
Welcome to Reàl politik
Someone should tell FFG supporters that. Having them screeching from the rooftops at every opportunity how FF would never go into government with SF is undermining that real politik talk.
I think you need to google real politik
I'll give you an example if it helps you understand the term
They'd rather not go into government with SF
However if a Ðáil majority was 52 and 26 Sf,26 FF and 49 klu klux klan were elected,FF would probably for the good of the country overcome their reluctance and govern with SF
Dunno about that tbf. I'd say a couple of them would be more comfortable with the KKK.
Ahh this is what you are reduced to 🤣
the only one screeching is SF supporters saying FF will, nobody else brings this topic up but SF supporters
I’m just laughing that your case for why FF would join SF involves SF changing all their policies to FF ones, so just vote for FF in that case a chara
I know it's difficult for to grasp, as it's a somewhat complex aubject. But, they don't have to change all their policies. They just simply have to accept that their position on certain policies will have to change. The same way it needs to change for every party who goes into government. Whether SF are willing to do that is up to them.
If they did, as Micheal Martin mentioned, then FF would go into government. Something you insist on constantly saying isn't the case.
Nothing is difficult for me to understanding. FF won't go into government with SF as I said, so I don't care about how many hoops you jump around trying to convince yourself. It is quite amusing now
Not the first and certainly wont be the last to start psoting about this, everytime the answer is "oh well they done it with FG"
An entire party strategy based on that :-)
The fact that FF went in with FG says it all. Selective memory doesn't change the fact that supposed different parties, who made a career of claiming not to be each other, are now only distinguishable by which cronies get the goodies.
Neither FF nor FG will ever hold a majority. They split the traditional floating vote that put one in and the other out.
They'll be very tough to beat together, but it'll get there.
That said, FF have no loyalty to FG. FF will do what ever FF wants. If FF get their hand slapped for partnering with FG, it's unlikely to happen again, but the damage to both reputations of being alternatives, is done.
