https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jun/09/eu-europe-elections-2024-results-news-updates-live-latest
I'm absolutely shocked
also rigged uranium prices? the Africans reduced to buying from the company store you could say?
Europe is going to become like the US. Red and blue and nothing in between.
Huh? Sounds like you've never looked at what's been happening in French politics over the last thirty years. It was - used to be, past tense - Red and Blue and nothing in between … until the electorate got a taste for shades of the same and other colours.
And yet, having forecast a return to the bipolar past, you also complain that
the left are so desperate to cling to power they'd prefer to form an ineffective and directionless government than to see what the other side can do.
What "other side" ? Presumably you mean the hard right? And by "the left" do you mean the Extreme Left, the Hard Left, the Left of Centre, or the Left-leaning Others. In any case, none of those (grouped together into three coalitions for this election) are in a position to "cling to power" because they haven't been in power for about a decade.
new dispensations prefer to grow ties with Russia, tell any French troops previous govt. invited to gtfo and bring in loads of Putin's charming mercs instead, they are free to do so
I think that's pretty much what happened in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger. And France withdrew its troops despite the previous adminstration sometimes begging them to remain to help them get back into power.
Yeah but the left are so desperate to cling to power they'd prefer to form an ineffective and directionless government than to see what the other side can do. It's almost undemocratic what they are up to to keep out the most popular party. You could kind of see the same happening here until SF blew themselves up.
Yes, ultimately France can attempt to influence + pressure these countries and perhaps wishes them to keep currencies pegged to Euro, but it is no "Empire".
If they have coups/"regime changes" and new dispensations prefer to grow ties with Russia, tell any French troops previous govt. invited to gtfo and bring in loads of Putin's charming mercs instead, they are free to do so and France (or any other EU country) is not exactly going to send in the gunboats to try and stop them!
Yes - they are mostly former French colonies who, upon independence, chose to continue to use the French Franc for its relative stability compared to any currency they could have put in place. When the FF disappeared in favour of the Euro, those countries requested to be allowed to keep the same relationship with the Euro. By definition, they are now as dependent on Germany and Italy as they are on France. If it's an "African empire" it's now a European one, and Ireland is part of the colonisers.
(I think that poster reads too much xenophobic British media. He should see what they think about Ireland!)
I think it's right for France to change direction so I'm not surprised with the result, Germany will follow in the next Election.
That's not what happened though. France doesn't have an overseas African empire. It lost long ago, like the British.
That's just your determination to put that reading onto it, when you don't do the same about the UK or indeed Ireland sending UN forces into Africa.
And you specifically linked Macron and Ukraine to Napoleon - so what exactly was that meant to imply?
Taking a robust posture against those who threaten France’s overseas African empire is a very Napoleonic gesture and should play well to the gallery of French national pride.
I was not suggesting that macron had any territorial ambitions in Ukraine.
So what was your point about Ukraine and Napoleon then? Was Boris Johnson also being Naoleonic when he landed up in Kiev?
France doesn't force any of those countries to do that though? They choose to profit from a perceived stability in the Euro, which they also had when they pegged to the French Franc. Same as when the Irish pound chose to be aligned to the pound sterling - was that "British Napoleonism" or a new British Empire?
It's a fair point. Also, I don't think Le Pen is anywhere near as extreme as the AfD in Germany - they are a genuine bunch of headbangers / racists.
I don't know that much about it, but was listening to a podcast a while ago where it was mentioned (think it was an episode of "The Red Line").
The person speaking (can't remember who I am afraid) said there was a tradeoff involved in the African countries who persist with it. When the world economy is bad, it can stabilise these economies and control inflation. They are more protected from attacks on the currency. So there is a benefit set against a reduction of control over their own monetary policy/economies.
You will note that Ireland itself has never really had complete freedom as regards our own monetary policy. I think it is a preserve and advantage of the largest and richest countries to set it as suits them best, that small countries just never have in reality.
Staying inside or outside association with the Euro, the African countries involved are not that at the moment, will possibly never be that??
Yes basket case African countries essentially pegged to the Euro.
France has kind of shot themselves in the foot. Look into the CFA franc and how they use it to get beneficial trade deals. The reserves of these countries also has to be kept in France. It’s a mess of their own making.
I never said anything about France invading Eastern Europe that’s ridiculous.
France has a colonial empire in Africa in everything but name and minus the outright brutality of the 18th and 19th centuries. Maintaining that empire is popular within France hence Macron taking a tough stance with Russia who were threatening that.
Macron again proving he a a gigantic dope.
His sense of himself is off the scales.
Yes and he will become more detested than he is now. Can you imagine a coallition of all those different views, total chaos guaranteed or Le Penn, that is it. France is split down the middle either way. Bravo !
he certainly has created a mess technically he didnt have to call an election till 2027
now le pen's party have gone from about 4 million votes 2 years ago to
7 million votes at EU elections 3 weeks ago to
10 million votes in the latest election
its clear the french voters want change and have enough of macron's party
It does not matter really. Macron has created a gigantic mess calling this election. His party is finished and he basically has to support one of the two groups he detests and both equally detest him likewise.But he wont support Le Penn, so if they win it would a coalition of everything from communists to Macron and everything in between.
This is complete nonsense. where is the evidence that Macron has ever had any designs on invading eastern Europe, never mind that he would start with Ukraine of all places?
As for their "colonial empire" in Africa, what you mean is that Russia sent in Wagner troops to exploit African resources. In SOME of those cases France had - at the request of the governments concerned - previously sent in some units of the French army to shore up the existing government from mostly islamist threats, but to protray that as France's "empire" is ridiculous.
The last election was close:
Le Penn is not far right, she moved the party towards the middle. The party is very against migration from Islamic countries which is not surprising giving the problems they have with Islamic terror attacks.
if its true that France exploit their trading relationship with some African countries, they deserve everything coming their way
if the US is anything to go by, paper ballots and counting arent a disadvantage and create more certainty , a discussion along American lines would make no sense in Ireland
France is a country that still has a low key 18th century attitude to colonialism. The Russians have threatened and damaged their colonial empire in Africa. Macron talking tough on Ukraine was little to do with concern for Ukraine and more about him tapping into his inner Napoleon.
France has limited use of electronic voting — only citizens resident abroad vote electronically, and then only in voting for the National Assembly. In presidential and EU elections they vote on paper.
It's absolutely not true that "almost every country" has electronic voting. Countries that don't have electronic voting include Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Poland and Japan. Some of these countries used to have some degree of electronic voting but have abandoned it (e.g. Germany, the Netherlands) or trialled it and rejected it (Finland,, Italy and, of course, Ireland). Some other countries have very limited electronic voting, e.g. for expatriate voters only — France (already mentioned) and Switzerland.
I think only three EU countries use electronic voting for national parliamentary elections - Belgium, Bulgaria and Estonia.
I have zero expertise, but I think it's partly just that it's "their turn" in terms of various different opposition groupings fighting against the "mainstream" have had their turn and people are still dissatisfied. Ensemble/En Marche were themselves essentially a protest movement that came from nowhere. I suspect RN will ultimately go the same way if and when they get into power.
5% ahead of the left alliance, 34% of the vote.
Is there any good in-dept write up on why the French have drifted to the Far Right? Just be interesting to know has something like Immigration pushed people over the edge?
Next weekend will be the the real test when the run offs take will the left leaning groups come together and vote on bloc to thwart Le Penns National Rally
