The best coaches are outside the county as the county board are as main as dyke water and wouldn’t spend Christmas
There’s also more money to be made for kk coaches outside the county and they know the county board is very clicky and they don’t fit the mould of what they want someone that will give there all for there county and be honoured to be asked to coach a team and be happy with a pat on the back for there efforts
I agree entirely.
The u20 was a complete shitshow for two years. After winning the all ireland to not getting out of leinster for 2 years was very disappointing. The inability to learn from the previous years lack of pace in certain areas was the final straw. If that management team is anywhere near next year's squad I give up
The minors can have no Complaints,tipp were the better team. Hard to believe we couldn't beat 13 players for most of the match. Woodlock had them revved up to the last. No matter what age these chaps are it was criminal the way we set up after the seedings off. It's not like they had no time to react. Some of the shot selections were very poor and there's a good few players who will regret being so greedy on more than one occasion. I don't accept that alot of this team is underage next year either. This is about now not next year. Two years ago we thought we would have 2 savage u20 teams but infact the management made a complete bags of it. Management got credit in previous games and unfortunately they will get heavily criticised now. They didn't drive balls wide or were greedy but we had backs marking nearly marking each other and just went route one. I remember after half times tipp started the new halves so well because they nearly took the door off the hinges on the way out. Our lads were outside waiting for a long time it seemed. I wouldn't know the minor like others here but I knew last night we were very slow to make a change or get the message across.
The question I have is why aren't the best coaches in kk managing in kk? The county board will select who ever is handy. This was a golden opportunity to win two all irelands in our own pitch and maybe im too harsh but management should of done much better. Its another year and another failure at minor.hard to belive its over 10 years since we won a minor and approaching 10 years without a senior. Can't just be selecting managers who are convenient. The doors need to be kicked down to get the best people in charge of our underage teams. This has to start now before they commit to another team.
Management's job is to manage, kids job is to do what their told. Excellent post JJ
Very good post. It’s the managements job to plan for all eventualities, if we have a man sent off, if the opposition have a man sent off etc… players should be able to implement the plan for all eventuality straight away, there shouldn’t be any need for these emergency meetings if you like on the sideline and trying to communicate a complex set of instructions to the players in the heat of battle. It should happen automatically.Look …. as you say it’s easy to be wise after the event but there’s no getting away from how it looks for Niall and the lads.
I'd love to see Mark Aylward and Martin Comerford take the u20 position next year, god knows we need a shake up u20 . At least the management at minor have built a very promising bunch of players and have put us in a very strong position for 2025. Mark Dowling and co absolutely butchered a good panel and we got nothing out of them 2 years running, don't get me going about the u20 management again .
Off limited knowledge of the players involved.
At HT take off a defender for a player that's comfortable around the middle. After his performance against Clare I thought Raggett should have been on sooner so probably him. Push him up to leave Dollard as a true spare man (it appeared to me that Tipps No 12 was getting on way too much ball just outside our 65). Have Henderson hug one sideline and Barcoe hug the other between the 21 and 45 for every puck out. Have Dollard paired with one and Buggy paired with the other. Puck out goes to one of the pairs. Draw a man, pop it off. Have Eoin Brennan move his way towards the ball as the 3rd man to set up the triangle. Don't sprint it up - literally run it up at 3/4 pace to see how the Tipp players react. 10 and 12 sit on the sidelines to create further width. If Tipp drag over to one side the triangle you've created can be used to quickly switch the ball to the pair on the opposite side. 3 or 4 give and goes gets the ball between their 45 and 65 yard line for your shots. I would've played very very little ball to the full forward line. To counteract that I'll say that Tipp did a hell of a job getting bodies to pressure the ball any time KK actually got inside their 45.
I felt everything was happening too fast when KK had the ball especially from the half back line. When they weren't launching it long they were going too fast down the middle.
But for all the criticism of the management and I believe most of it is deserved the team had more than enough scoring chances to win the game but either took the shot too early or didn't give the pass to a player in a better position.
Easy type the above after the event.
I know that a couple of adult clubs in Kilkenny had challenge matches on at the same time outside of the county as the minor match. County Board should have not approved any of those games when the requests came in.
Fair play lad, a lot of truth in that.
As a Tipp man, hard luck to Kk in this one. Reading some of the comments on here would make you think Kk hurling was coming to an end! The players are under 17 for this competition - 17! Playing in their own backyard could have put extra pressure on them, and potentially the 2 red cards may have put a bit more pressure on to win. These players are young, for senior teams they've been in similar positions before, have experience and are used to playing together, it's not the same underage. So a bit of perspective wouldn't go astray here, I wouldn't say anyone in a Kk jersey on the pitch didn't try their hardest last night.
Camogie I.think are on before the clare game at croker on Saturday playing dublin
Just out of curiosity lads, how would some of yee set up from half time onwards knowing tipp would play with spare defender (7 backs), 3 across midfield and 2 frwds for an out ball.
What would the instruction have been, hit it long the ball long and direct to McDermott on edge of square with spare defender close enough to cover breaks? try long range shots from middle of the park? try run the ball through a packed defence?
Thoose league games were better than championship for atmosphere sometimes
The new structure and price increases have definitely affected things as well as us not winning as much plus every game is on tv now
I think how the game is played now isn’t exciting people as much either
It’s a shame though we might not be winning but we’re at the business end every year
Kk supporters should be bulling to get success again and backing our teams like we’ve never won anything the last 10 years have been very lean
I have been harping on about the KK support for a while now. The county board certainly do not help themselves, they could have brought in juveniles from all the clubs but failed to do so. They never put flags up to create an atmosphere. I thought the support was 50/50 but they got behind there team and we didn’t.I think the co board are going from one fiasco to another and will seriously have to look at themselves. On the management I think they will certainly have to be replaced and I think anyone that has ambitions in management would love a chance to train these youngsters as they have huge potential. I would ask Henry to train them a man that knows his stuff and was a winner through and through, never mind Galway Jesus Christ couldn’t manage Galway . And Thomastown just fucked up. Mark Aylward and Gorta were also mentioned they won the U19 competition. Send in a few names and we’ll debate it .
100% when tipp went down to 13 there should have been a noticeable increase in the volume from kk supports not tipp as everything was in our favour
Supporters can give energy to teams from the stand as we seen from the tipp fans
Nowlan park should have been a cauldron last night as we were at home when in reality you could have easily thought the game was played in thurles
Who knows we might never have another minor final at home again it was a big chance missed which is sad
the league has had some fall since then. Were some great games around that period. There are just too many games now in a very short space of time, not surprising numbers are down. Doesn’t help we’re not winning either and expectations are low. I haven’t seen any upper deck tickets on sale for the Clare match yet, not looking like it’ll be a great crowd either unless the tickets are with clubs
There was Tipperary busses parked along every street and industrial estate around Nowlan park on the way to the game and our own crowd just didn’t bother. There’s no doubt having the crowd behind you in a close game like that gives a team a massive lift. You could feel the Tipp crowd in the ground both giving their own team energy and almost draining the life out of our lads with every roar. There wasn’t much point in having what was supposed to be the advantage of playing at home when your own don’t bother to come out and support you. As I said earlier they deserved better.
Completely agree we’re often lauded as the home of hurling it’s like a religion we eat sleep and drink hurling and other such remarks but it’s definetly not shown in how our county teams are supported
You would be sick of going to games and the team barely getting a clap coming onto the field and the opposition fans blowing roof off the stand when they come onto the field
Again last night it was very noticeable the difference in support for each team
I remember going to league games 10-12 years ago in nowlan park on **** wet days and every hook block and score would take the roof of the stand the supporters really got behind the team even when things were bad
That jumped out at me too, I think the topic of KK support is a bit of a cheap shot from the national media at times, in fairness of the top 9 counties of the last decade or so KK has the smallest population but it's fair enough regards last night. Seen the Tipp journalist Shane Brophy saying pre match they were expecting approx 12k of an attendance and say for arguments sake it was 7k Tipp and 5k KK that's a poor turnout of home support for an All Ireland final on home soil.
when the pressure is at senior, one mistake and they revert to long ball. Will know soon enough. Hard to read much into some of the games lately the opposition were so poor. Leinster final was barely a training session. Hopefully there is real improvement. When was the last championship game of significance that we weren’t outnumbered?
I have to agree in regard to our lack of support last night. I don’t usually say anything as I know it’s not always easy for people to attend games but this was an All Ireland final on our own doorstep ffs .
Those young lads needed our support last night but a lot of Kilkenny hurling followers watched this on the television. Our teams deserve so much better.
Of course I wasn't happy, you somehow equate that performance with the way our seniors play. I think there has been significant improvement in how our senior team have adapted their game this year. Last night was incredibly difficult for the young lads . They didn't handle it well and will learn from it. The team management have to accept they could have done better We as supporters also need to up our game . Outnumbered and allowed Tipperary take over our home ground. It's been like that for years now and I think our teams deserve better.
it’s the same problems working the ball up the field. If you’re happy with how the game was managed that’s great. I think the players are a lot better than what they showed yesterday, not faulting the effort any of them put in. they’re poorly coached and weren’t given the best chance going out
The Tipp-Kilkenny rivalry since the 2009 AI has been fantastic for hurling - a game in decline. I recall both sets of fans united in applauding the teams after the 2014 classic drawn game. Limerick and Clare are adding to that today. Hopefully, Offaly, Galway, Cork, Waterford, etc. continue to get better.
Yesterday and over the last few weeks we have had the privilege of seeing 15-19 year olds from many counties display the finer skills of this beautiful game. u17 is thankfully without the physicality, s & c of the u20 and senior teams. We get to see the finer qualities of first touch, great blocks & hooks, insightful passes, solo runs etc. without some big fella mauling the players and the scene.
Kilkenny's greatest strength is the quality of club teams and teachers devotion to promoting the skills. As a former Kk underage and minor winner with with St. John's and OLG, I appreciated the coaches and refs of our time outlawing rough play. That has fed a lot of high quality players into the clubs who do not want the injuries we can see the senior players having to contend with for 60+ years of life after retiring. Over the past 2 years we are seeing senior talent developed by the clubs as one of our best sources of players to match the expensive academy players from Limerick, etc, i.e., Tom Phelan, Jordan Molloy, David Fogarty, Eoin Wall to name a few.
The big lesson for the Kilkenny u17s is that scoring efficiency from midfield was not great in AI games given 35+ wides in 2 games; probably the wind; most likely the biggest crowds (x 4) they have seen in their careers to date. Tipp were very alert yesterday; another Munster sized crowd pumping them up; primed for going into the Lions Den; benefitting from Woodlock's own style of non-stop free form running; great Tipp support. Kilkenny were very nervous throughout; unlike the Dublin and Clare games they were leaden footed and unable to get to breaking ball even with a few yards head start; with the crowd baying for a Kilkenny red card, tackles were understandably half hearted; the ref & linesmen were trying hard to be fair to Tipp to make up for the 2 reds. I am concerned that Dollard picked up 2 head injuries against both Clare and Tipp. Dollard is a very good player and needs guidance on avoiding such injuries; a bit of cop on by coaches and trainers will help. I hope the young Tipp lad and the Tipp sideline look back at the incident and regret being so pumped up that player safety took a back seat on a 16 year old opponent.
Bit harsh to equate that display with our senior team. Pathetic actually.
Why would management go anywhere. Got to all ireland final. Considering the county board didn't move them on after 2 terrible years, hardly going to move them on after getting to the all ireland and a fair chunk of the team underage next year.
Was planning to go to the game but a vomiting bug put pay to that, watching on TV when the 2nd red happened 1st thing I taught is realistically for Tipp to make a game of this KK will have to play their part and fluff their lines, and even withstanding how heroic Tipp were that's exactly what happened. I can understand the Tipp management rubbing people up the wrong way but given the situation they were in yesterday evening the abrasiveness of Woodlock was exactly what their players needed to drive them on, he was definitely straight out of the mould of Sheedy.
Well who would the blame lie with, the management in this case is fully responsible for yesterday’s defeat they held all the aces and totally f….d it up absolutely no excuses.some people gave out about Woodlock but I would have loved him in our corner.
There will be plenty of interest in this job next year, with so many starters and squad players underage next year. It would be a great launching pad for a senior job in 4/6 years time and I already notice some high profile pundits on Twitter praising the players and sticking the knife in at management. Definitely ulterior motives imo.
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