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Are-ireland-and-leinster-the-biggest-chokers-in-world-rugby ?

sxt

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/are-ireland-and-leinster-the-biggest-chokers-in-world-rugby/

I'd agree with this assessment , I think in is in Irish psyche . Losing is celebrated here. It's hard to overcome that and turn in it to a winning mentality

There is a different mentality in South Africa and New Zealand

Ireland is a country that celebrates losing. 1 million Irish people came out to celebrate ireland losing in the quarter finals of the soccer world cup

The Irish women's soccer team were celebrated in the same way , coming last in their group

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Nigzcurran

Dont be a silly billy

[Deleted User]

Boks love this kind of stuff lol

mrm

Oh great…this chokers/ bottlers bullsh1t all over again. If we say 'yes', will you go away with your myopic mis-assessment of high level sport. You have already identified there are two nations that are difficult to beat in this sport. NZs best performance in 4 years put us out of last WC….and then I guess they 'choked' afterwards cos they didn't win the tournament.

Mcilroy, Leinster and Ireland have won major tournaments. Have they some win rights we do not know?

"Yes, but it's the same type of style though, with the way they play," he (Burger) suggests. Its called playing rugby…something SA have turned their back on, admittedly with success. Hope it doesn't last, seriously ugly wins the last two WCs. Did the article address that?

Podge_irl

MOD: I will leave this open for now, but this thread is going to have a pretty short leash.

Shehal

No the back to back 6n champions are not chokers.

sxt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322340#Comment_122322340

Really? .World cups and European cups for club teams are the lithmus test. leinster and Ireland losing every big game when it mattered in these tournaments in the last two years tells a very different story

Buddy Bubs

Its part of the mind games for SA match, nothing more. Id take it as a compliment they feel the need to do this. Rassie is at his usual messing too

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322429#Comment_122322429

So European Cups and World cup count but 6 nations don't?

mrm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322429#Comment_122322429

Oh right, so the sport is competed by a collection of chokers, except one non choker every 4 years (WC) and yearly (EC). That's a convenient assessment that wraps up the entirety of the events in those competitions. I am glad we are done with this assessment - I feared it had more depth and we would be here for at least another 6 or 7 minutes. Probably more convenient you restricted it to only the last 2 years for both!

Podge_irl

The 6N doesn't matter because Ireland are on a phenomenal stretch of victories in it and because by association the RC doesn't matter because SA are crap at winning it.

sxt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322496#Comment_122322496

Yes .How you do in a world cup is the lithmus test and matters alot more in how you do in a six nations ..

[Deleted User]

No. Just overrated on the world stage in a game that about 8 teams play to a decent level.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357843/are-ireland-and-leinster-the-biggest-chokers-in-world-rugby

. Losing is celebrated here

Well, Andy Farrell and the Ireland team are deeply unpopular among a certain cohort of Irish people so I don’t know about that.

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m shocked that Schalk Burger is a bit a of a dick. Shocked, I tell you.

sxt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322601#Comment_122322601

If you don't think Ireland and leinster aren't chokers, then you have a wild imagination

There are only 8 proffessional and competitive teams in world rugby. The ireland national team are no better than Part time players in Tonga and Western Samoa and Nambia result's wise in the ultimate Rugby competition . In fact Tonga and Samoa and Namnia have performed Lot better as they are amateurs

Ireland's best result is a last 8 game and they have lost every single one!

If thst isn't choking, I don't know what is?

Clegg

Its incredible how fragile so many South African ex-pro's are. They need to hammer home how unbothered they are by Ireland at every turn.

mrm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322791#Comment_122322791

So you're going to be selective with your 2 year duration assessment period, I'll be selective with this following scenario to you. You state this is simple choking in all instances that leave us with Tonga et al., nothing else - you set out the criteria of assessing the loss in every single last 8 game. That's your stance, no ambiguity in your assessment.

2015 WC (litmus test), final group game France and Ireland play one of the most bruising competitions I have ever seen in any sport event (MMA - Robbie Lawlor/ Rory McDonald may be the only other event that equalled it). Ireland go into the knock out round battered as do France; Ireland with 7 major players out injured. Both get hockeyed by NZ and Argentina respectively (who played each other 1st game in their group and cruised their final group games).

This loss was down to choking - your assessment. What and where are the choking points here? Was it the group games draw? Was it Paul O Connells hamstring that tore completely off the bone? It choked? Or Paul choked by taking to retirement? Or the other 6 players choked and feigned injury? I am struggling to see it. Please outline the choking in this instance - one of the last 8 choking losses according to you.

mrm

Sorry actually, please don't bother.

pickarooney

In WC terms it's between Ireland and France. Previously it was New Zealand for 24 years.

In club terms, Leinster must be coming close to dethroning Clermont if they haven't already.

OldRio

Yawwwnnnnnnnn.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323090#Comment_122323090

Ah Clermont still have us. We can't be the biggest chokers in Europe and also the second most successful team to my mind. Though clearly those pushing the "biggest chokers" narrative are happy to play around with timescales to suit themselves.

Buddy Bubs

Is the only way for an underdog to win that the favourite must be a choker?

I played rugby for 22 years, won some big matches we had no right to and lost some matches where we expected to.

Were we chokers when teams turned up well and got one over us on the day? No.

Were our fancied opposition chokers when we beat them against the odds? No.

Sometimes it just your time, other times it's not.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322429#Comment_122322429

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322756#Comment_122322756

What's the liTMus test for spelling and grammar?

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323131#Comment_122323131

yeah Leinster winning their first 4 finals gives a lot of breathing room compared to Clermont

Timfy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322791#Comment_122322791

World rankings would suggest otherwise…

[Deleted User]

While I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are chokers, I can see why there is at least a discussion about it. Over the last few years both Leinster and Ireland, with a large crossover in players, have failed to make the most of their opportunities. But the teams they lost to were if not better teams, certainly on a par with their Irish rivals. The fact that neither team has been able to get over the line, both figuratively and factually, when the win was there, does point to some weakness, which other teams have capitalised on.

I’ve never put much stock in world rankings, we were top of that list in 2019 shortly before the WC, but I don’t think anyone thought we were actually the best team in world rugby at the time, which was brutally exposed in front of my eyes in Shizuoka.

fullstop

While OP is clearly on a bit of a windup, I think there is certainly merit to the discussion. Prior to 09, we hadn’t won a Grand Slam in 60ish years IIRC. Once they got over that hump, 6N titles and Grand Slams became fairly frequent, with the monkey off the back. However, the inability to get beyond a WC quarter final is ridiculous in a sport where there are 8 serious teams and we’re supposedly in the top 3. It’s clearly a mental issue, which Leinster seem to have now developed when it comes to finals.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325341#Comment_122325341

It's also down to the fact we've been probably the most screwed of any nation with the RWC draw with the exception of possibly Scotland.

Two RWC's in a row where we had to beat another top 4 side regardless of where we finished in the pool in order to get to a RWC SF,

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325968#Comment_122325968

I agree with you on that, the draws, particularly in the most recent World Cup are an embarrassment to the organisers,

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326039#Comment_122326039

It's part of the reason why I think anyone who uses the recent RWC as evidence that Ireland are "chokers" are either trolling or are just desperately try to find any evidence to fit their narrative, this is even more apparent when they dont label France bottlers despite the fact they also went out in the QF's.

Like do people Seriously think England arent bottler's just because they got to play Fiji in a QF rather than NZL/France? And even then they nearly screwed that up.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322791#Comment_122322791

This is simply untrue, I’d say it’s more like 15 than 8

Regardless I always think this is such a dumb point to use to beat rugby with - apart from football can you please name for me a single field sport in the world that has a more competitive international scene than rugby? Genuinely?

Hockey, cricket, baseball, lacrosse etc etc all would have comparative or fewer competitive international teams involved.

Does this mean they’re all pointless?

Just because football has a monolithic global popularity means nothing else is relevant to enjoy?

Really ignorant take if you ask me. And always ironic that you see it put forward in a country where the national sport is played only here.