The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
It can always get better in fairness. I don't think anybody will disagree with that sentence.
My main bugbear is that unless you have a driveway and permission to install a charger it's much more difficult to own an EV in this country than a petrol or diesel
But if you have the above then the charging infrastructure is adequate and getting better
Tesla agreed a deal with Applegreen to stay there for the foreseeable… (they say long term, but you’d trust them about as much as you’d trust the Kremlin)
(Presumably a part of any deal is that the Superchargers don’t get opened up to other EV’s)
Yeah I agree, the lack of affordable overnight charging for people without a driveway is a big issue holding back EV adoption
I realise that they would need some degree of planning exemption and funding, but it seems like a lot of councils in the UK are mass deploying AC so they must see some merit
One of the arguments that's often brought up against AC is that it isn't profitable because you need a separate meter connection per charger per ESBN rules
However, I posted a document a while back showing that you can have multiple chargers, it just isn't the preferred way
So a modicum of applied thought could allow public AC to be a reality. You could have a deal where the council could pay for on street spaces to be pre cabled back to the ESB cabinet. Doing a whole street would be much more cost effective than individual spaces
Then chargers could just be rolled out as demand is there. For designated spaces, the owner of the space could pay the council to install a charger which is linked to a personal RFID card to stop people stealing your electricity
For unassigned spaces, there could be a waiting list option to gauge demand per area. Put in some identity checks like having to include proof of address and proof of EV ownership to keep everyone honest. These chargers would be available for the public via a CPO
The reason I'm not suggesting people just install their own chargers is because they'll all be on the same ESB meter and I assume the council won't want a mishmash of chargers on the street
There's some nice EV chargers now that looks just like a bollard and are very unobtrusive.
They have a planning exemption for up to 4 chargers but not for the accompanying sub station so it's in effect useless unless you want to install AC chargers
Also I think the main reason it's unprofitable is simply down to the slower deployment of electricity
I recall a company called zipcharge had a concept battery unit about the size of a carry-on suitcase you charged up overnight and then used that to charge your car. Seemed like a sensible approach but never got off the ground
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122294624#Comment_122294624
Its a bit off topic but
ESB ecars have rolled out on street AC and said they don't want to do any more. Easygo have rolled out in Ennis and say they don't want to do any more. All Dublin councils have said charging hubs is their preferred route over AC on street and they have taken away the on street trails in Swords, Malahide street lights etc.
It could be done of course, and any new footpath redesign should at least put in ducting to each parking spot. I think part of the reason is councils in general in Ireland dont get much funding from central government and the reality is this will be massive cost for on street AC and the actual price may make it not in demand and in reality unviable at scale, and there is a new quango who's job it is to do these things so the councils will happily sit on their hands and wait for funding from central government. The only council hub I see rolled out to date is this one and that relied on excess power at the site (swimming pool no longer heated by mains electric I think, combined heat and power generator on site) , council owned site and a test to see if it would be in demand. They hope commercial operators will fix the problem which is somewhat working out side of city centres.
If the council are unwilling to do it then the should be empouring resident associations and private individuals to do so
I wonder if a power shared solution is worth a thought. Just thinking outside the box but picturing a bank of 20 DC chargers beside a block of apartments and the guaranteed minimum power is only 7kW (with the max being 140kW).
If all 20 chargers are being used they charge at 7kw so grand for overnight charging, similar to what we would have at home, but if only 1 car is plugged in it can reach up-to 140kW. So during the day, for example, it can act as a rapid charger.
Not massively different to ELM's idea earlier of 25kW chargers (which I will state again is a good one) but with the addition of overnight charging possibilities for apartment dwellers. Obviously cost is a big factor as well
I think a min of 20kW would be needed if it;s the DC destination chargers that I was thinking of. For shared home charging, it's important that at least 7kW is delivered, for overnight charging (a la "normal home" charging), so it makes sense.
The only problem with DC charging vs AC charging for that purpose is the inability to set charge times, and the (arguable) impact on the battery by such a DC:AC ratio for regular charging. To be honest, for any kind of home charging, even shared home charging, multiple AC would be better. I think DC is best suited for motorway HPC, for 50kW fast chargers, and for the "destination DC" I described earlier of 20-25kW. Any slower and a bank of AC is best. All IMO of course. We're still very much at the nebulous stage of all this.
As a very smart man once said, from small concepts mighty corporations are grown
I'd like to see some studies on exactly how bad DC charging is for car batteries long term. Current pedestals are 2 X 22kW, so 44kW total. You could in theory run 6 cars at ~7kW instead. Could you power share it so if one car only is plugged in it could take the full power? I'd imagine it could. So you would have a charging hub for overnight AC for residents but as well you could knock off the power sharing feature during the day and use it as a public DC charger using the same power level. Ambitious, I'll accept and we keep coming back to costs, of course, but I'd imagine the tech is there at least to achieve this
Agreed, and 2 things are clear to me. 1> 20kW DC units are a heck of a lot cheaper than the 50kW or more units, Load balancing/sharing is expensive, and 2> there's a lot of wasted headroom from the 44kW allocated to a 2*22kW AC unit.
The problem with load sharing on AC is it sometimes introduces a situation where chargers can only loadshare by amps, so a dual socket 22kW charger with 2 leafs, ioniqs, or anything else that charges on single phase, would only draw 3.7kw at 16A each side, whereas 2 3phase cars would also draw 16a but that would be 11kW.
Perhaps a combination of 20kW DC, 3 phase AC and single phase AC, with tiered pricing, would be the optimal? We see this starting on the continent and in Norway already
I have gone into detail about it. Twice. Im not doing it again.
Where — can you provide a link? I'm not seeing that detail anywhere here
There definitely is — it's just beside the air/water station rather than near the other charge points.
No your first assertion is definitely no longer correct. The only struggle would be in a car that can't use CCS chargers.
There's definitely a need for more AG charge points at the M1 service stations, but even online you have Ionity Citynorth which is an excellent hub, and then once you're over the border there are tonnes of options (and even more being constructed right now) between BP Pulse and Ionity expansions.
I'm from NI and live in Dublin, so I'm constantly driving this route, and the situation has improved significantly in the last year and a half alone.
Mind you, I can make the entire journey without charging if I start in Dublin with 100%, and I think my car's battery is fairly average for what is on the market in 2024. Looking at the Renault Megane E-Tech, Peugeot E-208, VW ID.3, the Kia e-Niro, and various other non-luxury "low end" EVs, all of them are now capable of doing Dublin to Belfast and back with no charging, in terms of range.
I think this is what a lot of EV-refusniks and infrastructure complainers don't understand — the cars themselves are improving to a point where the infrastructure dynamic is very different.
Well all charging in reality is DC charging as the charger on board the car converts incoming AC to DC. Low power DC in the range of 20kw is not going to heat a big battery pack that much and it's impact on the battery in terms of its own lifetime performance would be negligible.
Yes I understand the mechanism behind it, but I (naeively?) assumed because the onboard charger was dictating the speed etc that there was less wear. Either way it's a moot point for now, I can't see that many low power DC hubs emerging!
That's good to know thanks, as somebody who lives far away from this area it's good information to have to hand,
Looking at it first it's a dark sight following the M1 on plugshare but zoom out a bit and filter to 2+ rapids I get
About 10-11 different locations around Dublin City
Applegreen Santry
Circle K Westview Lanestown
City North
Castlebellingham (for Tesla)
Circle K Oriel Dundalk
Newry Leisure Centre
Banbridge Vivo
About 9 different locations around Belfast City
I would actually say, it's quite a decent offering by comparison to what I was expecting
Yeah in a way you're both right I think
Personally I'm not sure if rapid charging really makes that much of a difference to EV batteries and if it was all something that was sold to us years ago on the FUD
I have a family member who used to charge her car the whole time at the chademo in the local Nissan dealership back when they were freebies, maybe about 4-5 years of consistently going in 2 or 3 times a week to top up, home charging mostly since it was gotten rid of but still a bit of Chademo every now and then.
One battery bar dropped last week and it's a 161 Leaf with 150,000kms on it so it has really made me wonder if it's just FUD or not
Feel free to queue for 2hrs at a single Applegreen charger at Castlebellingham though if you prefer ;)
There's a very good reason I chose stations with 2+ chargers in my filters. There's probably a similar amount of single chargers dotted along the route but nah haha!
Kids will be entertained at least, went there a few times on rainy days to let them run around the play area
Banbridge specifically will be a real boon for electric travellers — already has 4 x 150kW at the Maxol, and there's a 12 x 300kW Fastned Hub being constructed at the moment.
Belfast has a 11 station Ionity hub too, just off the M1.
According to plugshare there's a BP pulse (4 plugs) and fastned (6 or 12 plugs depending on car) under construction at the outlet in banbridge, right off the motorway
The titular company in this thread have really dropped the ball on that road though. I'd have thought once Applegreen kicked them out of castleb and lusk they'd have opened a hub nearby. I know Tesla were planning that for a while in the eventuality that AG would kick them
Last weekend at Castlebellingham Northbound (1x CCS & 1 Chademo non-tesla charger): 1 ID4 charging. 1 Q4 e-tron waiting. I would have topped up for the 10/15 mins I was there if a charger was available. All 8 Tesla chargers unoccupied. If there really is a deal between Applegreen and Tesla to keep the SC Tesla only then Applegreen need to get the finger out and install more CCS plugs for the rest of us (otherwise I can not plan any trip around using their sites where a single CCS plug would leave me waiting ages).
Nobody knows for certain if there really is a deal between Tesla and AG to keep the SC Tesla only but most of the SC's in Ireland not opened to other cars are at AG sites. Open to correction but I think welcome break in the UK, owned by AG, are the same way. They host superchargers but they're all "Tesla only" according to plugshare at least
The real finger pulling needs to happen with ESB. They're happy enough to install an 8-car 150kW hub (depending on parking abilities) at the crescent shopping centre but the most they'll do on the M1, probably the countries busiest road that connects 2 cities, is a few 1-car 50kW chargers dotted around. They got kicked by applegreen nearly 2 years ago and have done nothing since
Yeah the Applegreen stations are no longer part of my charging plans, if I need any. I pretty much skip them entirely for the Ionity hub if a charge is required. Or if I'm on my way from Belfast to Dublin I'll probably just wait until the Ballymount Applegreen hub.
I've no idea why AG are doing things so slowly on their M1 sites — they have essentially not improved since the eCars stations were first installed (I know the charging speed is better on the newer AG units, and I know the AG units can do Chademo and CCS at the same time, but it's basically the same amount of charge points available) — when they are making great strides elsewhere in the country.
Interesting experience yesterday, was at a 50kW unit yesterday, queuing behind a Mokka E for 30 minutes while he went from 70% to 92%. As soon as the Mokka reached 45 minutes the charge stopped. Nobody around so I presume the owner stopped it remotely. Bad form if ever there was any!!!
The curious thing was the screen reset and told me to tap the card, so I did and plugged in on the chademo. It worked a charm.
So I can conclude that on the 50kW CCS/Chademo units if somebody does a remote stop you can then start the charge on the other cable even if the cable is still in the other car
Maybe this is public knowledge but I've never seen this happen before
At least it wasn't a 300kW charger going from 70 to 92%… I'd have used the protective steel pillar in John Cleese-style as a re-education tool. 🤣
Hi,
I am quite new to all the EV charging etc. and had a disappointing experience on Sunday when charging my car at an ESB charger. Not sure yet if there is something wrong with the charger or if I made a mistake, but at the end I got charged for my charge, but also for the car which was already charging when I arrived. I realised it when the other car drove away, and I received the email that my charging session is completed. When checking my account on the app I learned that I paid for the other car, and when I finished my session, I got charged for it as well.
I immediately called the helpline, and a very friendly lady was able to see everything but had no authority to pay back my money. But she said on Monday would someone contact me and rectify the problem. However, nobody called so far.
I am not impressed!
Yeah...what?
So just to be sure I got it correct, you and another car were plugged into the same charger, and you paid for both cars to charge?
What kind of charger was it?
I assume you tapped your Ecars card on the charger, or ended it via the app?
One possibility is the other car wasn't charging for whatever reason and you inadvertently started their charger
I didn't think you were allowed to use the same card on two chargers in parallel though
It was an 100kW ESB charger with two connections at the local Supervalue. When I arrived, a car was charging already on the left. I connected the second plug two my car, tapped the card reader with my card, selected my charger and of she went. Strangly, I received two emails saying charging had started, but as they came at the same time, I didn't think about it. Especially as no connector number or similar was stated. And yes, I finished my charging via the app. At this time the other car was gone already.
I called the ESB help line today, and a not so friendly lady was just able to tell me that my case is forwarded to the head quarter and they will be in touch. No explenation, no time line given etc.
