I'm entirely convinced Coombes wouldn't let Ireland down, akin to McCloskey before him.
I don't think anyone has said he would let Ireland down, but ultimately we can only bring so many players into camp or on tour. If Coombes gets a call-up, then Timoney or Prendergast does not, and neither of them would let us down either. It's a zero sum game (unless we bring 50 players). The coaches have obviously decided they've seen what they need to see from Coombes, for now anyway.
McCloskey is exactly what Coombes needs to be aiming at; even if the first choice 23 is out of reach, you need to be next cab off the rank when a gap opens up, but he can't seem to get there. I'm sure Coombes knows exactly what is needed of him, even if we do not, so what can he do except keep working on it.
I dunno if there is anything in this or not but I have heard it said Cork side on a few different occasions that Coombes biggest issue is his off field attitude...maybe it's horse manure or maybe there is some resemblance of truth in it I don't know
Are we still discussing a player who isn't even in the squad?
true, this whole conversation could be kept in the leinster thread.
11-13 leinster players will play in the first 15 then + subs, and when we lose, Pete will get the blame.
I think I have sorted it out.
see ye all in September.
Don't rush back
Perhaps you should try not talking about him if youd like him not talked about
MOD: Cut it out.
People can talk about any Irish player they want. If you find the discussion tedious IGNORE IT.
It seems to be ok to talk about him, once you're making a point on why he isn't in camp, anything else, you hate Farrell, hate Ireland and only want your pet in the squad.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see Podge's post, but any more and there'll be warnings.
So many crucial SA scores in the WC came from 50/50 high balls landing outside the 22. Could be a baptism of fire for any of them.
With the potential speed SA have on the wings, barring injuries, compared to Ireland I think they might attack that
Some teams/kickers get these kicks badly wrong, in that they land inside the 22 and allow the receiver call the mark.
No Keenan and no JGP is going to make this tour hard.
Yes, not ideal and it's a shame that Haley (who I admit, hasn't been at his best but he's the next best FB) hasn't got a call up to replace Keenan, who I think could well be a bigger loss than JGP. The Bulls had Leinster chasing shadows with some of their kicking, Ireland can't afford to give SA that space or ball.
Good
We already know a full-strength Ireland can beat the Boks, but if we're going to SA with a few front-liners missing, then we're going to learn something, win or lose.
Was something funny about seeing the players going back into camp yesterday, almost 12 months on from when the season started (camp last year for the RWC started on July 10th).
So many of these guys just have to be physically and mentally flogged, and I would definitely wonder if the enthusiasm levels and energy were at the levels typically expected this week.
Across the entire squad, players played on average of 22 games and 1,294 minutes over the past season, but there are some outliers in there skewing the numbers. 4 players played under 600 minutes (Oli Jager - 440 mins, Cian Healy - 469 mins, Sam Prendergast - 478 mins and Cormac Izuchukwu - 521 mins). Another few guys like Jimmy O'Brien, James Ryan & Garry Ringrose spent significant chunks of the season injured.
3 of our absolute most important players - Tadhg Beirne (29 games, 2,132 mins), Jack Crowley (31 games, 1,983 mins) and Caelan Doris (28 games, 1,919 mins) have arguably been absolutely flogged this season, and a few other guys have very high numbers relative to the attritional nature of their positions - Andrew Porter (25 games, 1,525 mins) and Dan Sheehan (27 games, 1,320 mins).
If Ireland can get up for this series and produce some good performances in SA it will be a huge testament to the hunger and professionalism of this group of players, and to the motivational skills of Farrell & Co, but to me it feels like this tour will likely be a step too far for this group of players this season.
have u seen the SA injury list!
It's hilarious to me reading back into the hysteria of all these posts about including Sam Prendergast on the tour, that there was virtually no similar analysis applied to Cormac Izuchukwu's selection.
Izuchukwu, who is 24 and in his fourth season of professional rugby, has only managed to rack up 29 games in four years, for 814 mins (Prendergast, 21, has played 18 games in 2 seasons for 638 mins).
Izuchukwu has never played a minute in the Champions Cup, not this season or any season, and only started 7 games this year. He had a good run in to the season, starting four games on the bounce and playing well, and that's carried him in here.
I'm not complaining about his inclusion - he looks a special talent, but you would have to raise an eyebrow at the hypocrisy around the teeth gnashing over bringing Sam Prendergast as our likely third choice out half but the absolute radio silence around this inclusion.
Great to get South African input, would you be able to give the list of missing players please? and what is the mood from a South African point of view regarding this tour? Is it a priority or is it seen as a burden on already flogged players? Do the South African team expect to win easily at home, and would the public and media be very critical if Ireland won a test or two?
Outside of a tour to NZ, you'd think this should at least be the easiest tour to get them hyped up for. SA being complete weirdos about it should hopefully help.
every summer tour is big in SA no matter the competition.missing players currently are kitshoff,moodie,am,willemse,de jager,wiese,arendse,kolbe and leroux are concerns too.think I’m missing one or two others too.in SA they always expect to win but that’s not always the case.expecting tough series yes.if SA lose no matter to who and especially at home the media cut them to shreds.
One looks physically ready and ended the season a key player for his province and the other is maby a backuo for his province going into next year.
I think the nature of being a 24 year old vs a particularly slim 21 year old is a factor also.
Their not really like with like comparison i think
Though sure leinster players getting the majority of ireland spots for years likely is a factor. An all ireland team is a good thing
A key player for his province? He started 7 games last year total. He didn't play a single minute in Europe. He had a couple of nice games at the end of the season, notably against Munster and a good 15 mins before he departed injured against Leinster, but calling him a key player is a massive stretch, and claiming he earned this spot with sustained excellence doesn't stack up either.
Despite their age difference - Izuchukwu has no appreciable experience advantage over Prendergast, he's barely played more games and mins. For the positions they play in - Izuchukwu's durability and conditioning have also historically been concerns.
Hearing this stuff about "particularly slim" is tiresome too - Prendergast has visibly put size on over the course of the season, and is by any definition a really big guy at 6ft 4ins and c. 93kg.
The coaches are the ones who are tasked with determining his physical readiness for this sort of test, and are doing so armed with the knowledge of access to all of his data (gym, training etc), and by seeing him up close and in training daily. That holds quite a bit more credence than armchair pundits saying they think he looks a bit skinny.
Arendse is apparently back for the Bulls this weekend
that’s a big boost was the expecting him back for the 2nd Irish test.didnt expect him back before that.
What i said was he ended the season a key player which im surprised you disagree with tbh he was key
He is particularly slim thats a fact, if the coaches dont see it as an issue thats fine and youd trust them but he is absolutely slim irrespective of what size hes put on
Johnny Sexton had that gangly and slimmer frame, and he spent most of his career at 6ft 2 and 90kgs - Prendergast is a couple of inches taller and about 4 or 5 kilos heavier.
He's not being asked to pack down in the front row either, and he's not being selected for his physicality.
What he has shown a great aptitude for early in his career is directing the attack - that's the unique skillset they see in him that they want to see more of.
Prendergast's inclusion in this squad isn't unusual - his is a high calibre talent who has shown significant potential, but, crucially, there is a real gap of viable alternatives / back ups to Crowley. It's highly likely he doesn't play on this tour, but bringing him along makes absolute sense.
Once again - I don't have any issue with Izuchukwu's inclusion. I think he looks to have the sort of elite talent that it's worth taking a punt on. My point was - most of the challenges levelled at Prendergast's inclusion earlier in this thread, especially his lack of big game experience etc is arguably even more valid as a criticism of Izuchukwu.
The experience comment is fair but you could put Izuchukwu in poms role tomorrow and he coukd do it. Sam you need to change things for probably take him out of the defensive line for a start
I have no issue with him being there i just wish we did it for others also. If this can help him become international standard then happy days
Alao sexton wasnt as skinny as sam even young. I find 95 kg hard to believe even if it is on a tall frame
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