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Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

Tenger

To prevent the Aer Lingus thread being de-railed I'm opening this up.

Tomorrow, all posts relating to this ongoing situation will be merged into this thread.

AIRLINE OR AIRLINE STAFF BASHING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

If your post is deleted it's because the Mods decided it was a low value post, trolling or airline bashing. Posts that are rude to other posters will be deleted without warning.

Posters are going to have different opinions about this unfolding situation. It's a messy situation. We are going to have conflicting views on this. Whether you are EI ground staff, EI passenger, an EI pilot, a friend of a pilot, a potential EI customer.

This thread WILL NOT SOLVE the ongoing situation. That is between the employer, the union and the WRC.

Any confidential info or claims of insider knowledge will be deleted without warning.

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Comments

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282911#Comment_122282911

I'm not sure I get the point of your first paragraph, but solely from a common sense perspective: the point of a strike is to disrupt your employer and make a point. Unfortunately, customers, regardless of what business is involved in industrial action, get caught in the crossfire. There would be absolutely no point in striking at a time when the company can easily circumvent the action, the point doesn't get made, people are still pissed off but the industrial relations issues don't get solved. If you've gotten to the point where a strike is on the table, you better make it count.

You're correct that there is a pilot shortage globally. As has been pointed out before, pilots that leave an airline have to start in another airline at the bottom of the scale, potentially throwing away years of service at their original employer and taking a pay cut until they've accrued similar service at their new employer. That hasn't stopped people from doing it, but it's a disincentive and Aer Lingus know that. Other factors to consider are that commuting abroad or indeed moving abroad may not be viable for everyone, depending on family life. Moving airline and taking a pay cut that leads to longer term better earnings has to be weighed up against the possibility of losing one's medical license too, every year the possibility of your career coming to a halt over an otherwise routine medical condition is a distinct possibility.

Your simplistic view of work to rule is pretty flawed. For one thing, working overtime is not and should not be a requirement for pilots. There are legal limits on how much they can work and they exist for a reason. Fatigue has and unfortunately will continue to lead to fatal accidents because companies want to save money by hiring fewer pilots. But that aside, overtime isn't the only thing involved in a work to rule. It's all in the media over the last few days so you can look up exactly what's involved yourself.

Phoebas

I've got a flight booked with Emirates to SGN in two weeks time, with a connection in LHR. The DUB-LHR portion of the flight is with Aer Lingus, but the ticket is issued by Emirates, so I guess they are responsible for keeping me informed, making any changes etc.

Does anyone know what connecting airlines normally do in a situation like this?

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282620#Comment_122282620

This can happen. Over the last decade the airline has been rostering longer and tighter schedule for crew.

If a pilot is coming in at 3pm to operate a 10 duty, and the plane is already 2 hours late from.its previous flight, they could be looking at out of hours later that day.

Off the top of my head. (These are Europe wide safety regulstions, NOT just EI pilots)

The minimum time between duties is 12 hours. But Aer Lingus have a habit of leaving 12 hours 30 between rostered duty. If the pilot is delayed an hour on day 1, they can't operate the planned duty on day 2.

In addition some airports have a departure curfew.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282021#Comment_122282021

it’s called “right to disconnect” (the Workplace Relations Commission (“WRC”) Code of Practice for Employers and Employees on the Right to Disconnect). Came in to effect in 2021. It gives each EMPLOYEE the right to refuse to answer any work related communication.

Whether you are well paid or not.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283642#Comment_122283642

I'm aware of what it is.

Imagine being that type of person though that wouldn't answer a work call after hours from your EMPLOYER for a situation of what could be of utmost importance………………..

Fair enough, if they are calling every 10 minutes, but if it is ONLY to take a phone call. That's bullshit.

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283753#Comment_122283753

What could an airline be calling a pilot who’s sitting at home bar asking to come in to do an extra shift. i doubt they are ringing them to ask them about a problem with the airplane.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283753#Comment_122283753

That’s not a thing though. Ordinary line pilots aren’t getting urgent phonecalls out of hours/on days off for anything other than being asked to work when they’re not rostered.

I don’t know why you place any importance on an ‘EMPLOYER’ calling you. Unless your job specifically requires (and suitably compensates) you to be contactable at all times, then an employer has absolutely no business contacting you.

With aviation, legally mandated rest is a thing. And any contact from an employer during rest periods is considered disturbance of that rest. Hence why pilots are not considered contactable during their rest periods. Yet, unscrupulous airlines still do it because their priority is greed and cost-saving and they don’t give a flying ‘f*ck.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283830#Comment_122283830

Exactly. I have no issues with the pilots and Unions taking a stance against being asked to work on rostered days off. My only point was if an employer needed to ring you after hours for whatever reason, i'd trust that they would take the call.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283753#Comment_122283753

Lack of forethought on the management side does not constitute an emergency on the pilot's side.

If you are REQUIRED to be contactable by phone on your day off in any other industry, you get paid for that time you are supposed to contactable. That's how it works in any normal functioning workplace. I know someone in an office job who leaves his work phone in his desk over the weekend. Whenever anyone says they couldn't call him, he says "yeah, I know, that's the point…….If you want me to be on call, you better pay me an extra 48+hrs pay".

Airlines have scummy practices in place that should have been challenged long ago. Don't cabin crew only get paid when the plane leaves the gate? And any time until then = no pay? Or am I imagining this?

Anyone who chooses to support Aer Lingus over their staff because they're on more money than they are themselves is a fool. Didn't see any pilots making €225,000,000 last year.

Trampas

Ei have said 10-20% of flights will need to be cancelled due to not having enough pilots

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283998#Comment_122283998

That's quite the number.

There will be a lot of nervous travellers worrying about their upcoming plans

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283930#Comment_122283930

Ah sure maybe i'm just lucky and have such a relationship with my boss that she can call me morning,noon or night

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284021#Comment_122284021

Let’s hope they can merge a few lhr and ams to soften the blow for people. I would guess the flights to summer climates are the ones that could cause the biggest disruption for the general public. I guess until we see flights on the list we won’t know. Will fr pounce with say €200 single flights to Malaga or faro if one of these cancelled

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284029#Comment_122284029

Ye, my thoughts would be LHR, i think they run close to 15 a day.

Who nows. And you can be gaurentted FR will be waiting in the wings. Big PR coup

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283753#Comment_122283753

Emails exist precisely to answer queries about aviation incidents.

If there is an incident during a flight the pilot has to complete the reporting documentation before finishing their duty.

sailing

Interesting article in the Irish Times in which it points out that Ryanair won’t be relishing this Industrial action as it may kick start unrest in their own airline.

It certainly kick started unrest in other airlines around Europe last year. Aer Lingus are desperate to keep the lame pay award the same as other groups.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283998#Comment_122283998

Being quite a simple man, I will take that as official confirmation/admittance that EI only have 90% of the flight crew that they should have.

ooter

If your flight is cancelled and you don't apply for a refund does anyone know how you claim compensation under the EU rules?

Isn't it at least 14 days notice they need to give?

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283998#Comment_122283998

How do they decide which flights are going to be cancelled? Is it the last 10-20% of flights each day?

TheDriver

Id guess flights that encounter delays easily, ones with multiple runs per day.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284173#Comment_122284173

No.

The company will look at their schdule and decide which routes to prune on a day to basis.

EG. They gave 12 flights to Heathrow..there could cancel 4 of those and rebook passenger onto the remaining 8. (Similar with CDG, MAN, BHX and AMS)

Or they could cancel a flight to Athens, rebooking passengers via Heathrow. Which fares up the Athens pilots to operate other routes.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283274#Comment_122283274

My first point is simple and contradicts your basic claim. Customers do not get caught in the middle of a strike unless the business is an effective monopoly which, in the EU, means a public service provider (whatever its ownership). The pilots strike is timed to ensure the customers are trapped because all alternative flights are full.

It would be hard to devise a greater deterrent to the recruitment of experienced pilots than to insist that all pilots must start at the bottom of the airline’s scale regardless of their experience. If that self-defeating policy is part of a conspiracy by the airlines against the pilots, the European Commission should take the matter immediately to the European Court of Justice.

There is nothing simplistic about my interpretation of “work to rule”. If pilots are not breaking their contractual obligations by refusing all overtime, there is an incredible omission in their contracts.If they are breaking their contracts it is not “work to rule”, it is “work as we please”. If you know any other employers willing to pay on that basis, please DM me.

TheDriver

Question, I recall something before that if an airline cancels, they could rebook you on a competitors flight and they've to pay for it eg they cancel me to Malaga but there's a seat on FR so EI books that seat for me if I so choose?

Fotish

I just forked out 156 Euro for the short term car parking at Dublin Airport , is that also lost if I cannot fly due to the Strike ?

Rock Steady Edy

Doesn't a work to rule mean that pilots will only fly flights for which they have previously been rostered for, so EI have to cancel those flights which they were relying on pilots to volunteer for overtime?

Bussywussy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282903#Comment_122282903

Yea I'm waiting for the sindo articles attacking the staff, they always parrot the management , I presume the journos are getting a kickback for favourable coverage.

Simon Gruber Says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284222#Comment_122284222

That'd be for a travel insurance claim. But, if you didn't buy insurance prior to this being in the news, you're probably SOL unfortunately.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284111#Comment_122284111

It's certainly notable how MOL has been telling everyone how greedy the pilots are and EI/IAG are the good guys.

Well maybe notable isn't the word, he usually has an opinion on everything, and willing journalists blithely reporting it.

zone 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284222#Comment_122284222

cant you cancel that up to 4hrs notice

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284023#Comment_122284023

Maybe. Does your boss regularly ring you to come in and cover a 10hr shift at short / no notice to make up for her own incompetence?

Would you still answer the phone if this happened 5,6,7 times? If you answer yes to that question you're need to reevaluate your priorities.