I said my point.
Its a great long term goal if the irfu (and provinces) put adequate resources (money) into it. It takes a lot to replace the rugby environment of the best private schools, and can't be something just wished into existence. It won't replace the impact of project players in short term or even medium term.
Very decent spud as well - makes very nice spicy sausages and is in the coaching team at Instonians now.
I'm glad you stopped digging.
As you say, it's best to leave it.
Why would you replace the rugby environment of private schools?
If you think rugby players can only come via a system like private schools you are sadly mistaken, the GAA system produces excellent players for GAA via the club system.
The best Munster team came via clubs etc.
Looking at the private schools as some sort of problem is not the answer, the private schools should just continue doing what they do
The IRFU needs to work with the clubs around Ireland to produce other pipelines, how many kids are playing rugby/GAA/soccer up to age of 10 and then drop off into GAA/soccer? how do they keep them in rugby….thats the questions I would like to see the IRFU etc answering
I'm guessing he meant replicate and not replace.
Because simplistically if the best private schools have X level of facilities, Y amount of dedicated practice time, and Z level of coaching talent… then those have to be replicated by the province for their best club players. That is a real logistical and economic challenge. Comparing to the GAA is pointless. GAA clubs have amazing facilities compared to Rugby ones. Changing that would require a kind of ground level effort by ordinary people that would also take a long time and is unlikely outside the GAA. Edit: Lord Palmerston is correct. I mean replicate.
That might make a bit more sense 😂
So you think players can only be produced via private schools system?
Comparing to GAA is 100% correct, if you seen some of the facilities at rugby clubs they are getting better by the week. Some of the best GAA players are also coming from clubs which don't have the best facilites
Also the coaching for parents etc that are involved at clubs is getting better and better. For my kids the GAA and rugby are similar, once you go to soccer it is a noticeable drop off as the FAI don't bother their arse
Writing off players because they come from clubs without whatever level of facilities you think they should have seem pointless, to me it sounds again like you just don't want the IRFU to bother even trying.
No, i think its easy to say that we should expand other pathways but that is much more expensive and much more difficult than people let on. Which is the reason most of our players come from private schools.
Just as an example, let's say you identify 15-20 of the best club players, the logistics of providing them the same level of competition, facilities, practice and coaching is really tough compared to basically doing nothing when it comes to private schools. Like, how do you even get them on a field together for the same amount of time around their normal schedule? The IRFU and the provinces are trying but its a long term and hard thing to achieve. That's what those centres of excellence provinces are building are for presumably. They can provide the facilities for the best local players to be trained together, and workout together. This is a long term project though. The idea that this can somehow happen quickly is nuts, and also this applies to guys who already play rugby. Expanding that to guys who don't or people from areas who don't is an even more expensive longer term project. The GAA comparison isn't valid mainly because Rugby wouldn't have a problem if their base was like the GAA base. My local area has clubs with fantastic facilities and it was almost entirely done locally in terms of money and effort. Any rugby club in ireland is free to do likewise.
A schools player is almost always going to be ahead of a club player on the development front at the age that academy spots are given out and that is one of the core problems with expanding the system.
Yea, making up that gap pre academy selection is the key piece. Sometimes i wonder if counter intuitively, investing directly into schools for ulster, connacht and munster would be the most efficient way to do this. Make more private school level teams and expand scholarships. That would be expensive and also extremely tough politically in terms of picking and choosing.
In many way I think it could be the most effective, but yeah I think politically (and morally) questionable road to go down.
there’s room to improve coaching from minis upwards, the regional representative teams from u16 are good (I assume it’s not just Leinster that do that) but if the earlier coaching was improved the players could be at a higher level when they arrive at that stage. Underage coaching can be hit and miss, too much riding on having a dad that has a clue helping out.
The fee paying schools are an issue but it's access to then that's the issue and not the schools and what they do in rugby themselves. That they're fee paying rules plenty of kids from accessing them which totally reduces the pool of potential pros unless you have the best possible structures for those outside those schools and we are not there yet. Possibly when leister have completed the expansion of their centres of excellence with the next 4 centres matching the Ken Wall in donnybrook and when munster have built there's in the east and west to match whats in Musgrave etcthe gap will close
Leinster is one province, we have four provinces
The obsession with private school is holding back Irish rugby, people prefer to use them as an excuse than put together solutions. The old throw hands up in air and do nothing is a lot easier
four provinces and we have been told many times that only Leinster have the private schools model
Munster at the moment probably have the most impressive group of young players
Ulster have also some cracking players and some before that didn’t progress more to do with coaching post academy it would seem
Connacht seems to have a few decent ones as well
If they can identify players now and the system is starting to work better than ever why can’t they expand? Why can’t Connacht get some of those huge GAA player that Mayo constantly produce?
Bit of an odd take given that Humphries has just pledged to do that.
No people haven't. It's simple fact that schools with big focus on rugby who have fees and associated benefits of that will be able to produce more players than those clubs and schools without those resources.
Sounds Very much like throwing hands up in air reading that post
The private schools have been around a long time, the obsession only recently
not a recent thing at all. the concentration, for want of a better word, of a large number of players coming from two particular schools is a recent thing though
The obsession is very recent, no matter what the topic private school get dragged into it
They are working at the moment, personally I would think people would be obsessed with the sections of player development not providing as many players as they could.
Less problematic if there's a focus on non fee paying schools. There are a lot of these schools that have developed rugby teams in the last few decades, Naas CBS among them. It's just one I'm vaguely familiar with. I'm not sure if they have contributed players to the pro game but its definitely helped the game grow in Kildare.
Not at all and I've been on this site nearly 14 years.... arguing how the sport needs to do more and work to get a wider development system to find more pros and it has in many areas but it will be always behind the schools.
The conversation on this website and other starts at private school and never gets past it
Stuck in a loop at this stage
I wouldn't agree with saying less problematic. More it's simply better because if you focus on fee paying you cut off a lot of people. Doesn't help the sports image etc. Naast cbs has had past pupils turn pro over last decade or so but it's been more through the work put in by Naast rfc than the school
It's less problematic because the IRFU further subsidising what are seen as elite schools is a bad look, and there are mosre kids with likely less rugby resources in these schools.
I can only speak about the area I live. To compare the facilities that every small GAA club has in tiny Leitrim to the facilities at Carrick on Shannon Rugby club (The only club in the county) is a very bad joke.
The GAA is an amateur organisation, they can spend their income on facilities, the IRFU have a huge wage bill in comparison to both the GAA and the FAI.
I'm just back from Northern Italy, the facilities in some tiny mountain villages would put Ireland to shame, while playing rugby in a GAA field isn't great from a spectator point of view, the lack of municipal facilities in Ireland is a huge cost on sporting bodies like the GAA and IRFU, that's money that could be used for player development
THe money the GAA have got invested over the last 100 years compared to rugby is significant, rugby clubs are only now starting to get any small bit of investment and that has to continue
Therefore comparing the GAA to Rugby is just silly.
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