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VFD checking

kadman

Where in the midlands can i bring my VFD to get it checked for a constant 09 fault which I cant seem to get rid of. I have tried a different motor on my lathe and get the same fault so I assume its the drive is toast. I would like to make sure before I fork out money. Thanks

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2011

What brand is it?

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216159#Comment_122216159

This one from JFK in Northern Ireland

2011

never heard of them. I think your best course of action would be to email JFK or phone them.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216731#Comment_122216731

Already have done, but they are in the business of selling, not repairing 4 year old units. Cant blame them for that.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216922#Comment_122216922

First of all you need to determine whether the VFD needs to be repaired or not. That starts by understanding what the "09 fault" fault is. This could be a fault with the motor. Normally getting your hands on a manual would not be too difficult.

Also if this company is only in the business of selling they may be able to tell you who they recommend for maintenance & repairs. At work we normally use ABB but also Danfoss, Siemens and other drives. My experience with manufactures and suppliers of drives has been very positive.

kadman

I have the manual, I know what the fault relates to, but I am not leccy savvy and have no wish to learn anything about fixing it. Electrics melt my head unless its auto. I was hoping I could find someone in Ireland that could.

kadman

Its not a motor fault, as i switched it with another motor, and the identical problem occurred. A 09 fault was flagged up after the motor attempted to start for 3 seconds.

Daniel son

What is the fault code.

Dave_D_Rave

Can you post the manual can take a look at what the 09 fault code is for you to give some guidance.

Google is not returning any results

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222196#Comment_122222196

Its page 148 on this manual

https://www.alfaelektronik.com.mk/opisi/34545/WSTG600%20inverter%20user%20manual.pdf

kadman

Screenshot 2024-06-05 at 12-42-33 4D6963726F736F667420576F7264202D20323031362E31302E3133D6ECB3ACBDF0D6D3D3A2CEC4CBB5C3F7CAE94F4B - WSTG600 inverter user manual.pdf.png

Here ya go.

Dave_D_Rave

Cheap Chinese stuff really possible solutions above are to replace main components of the drive which are probably more expesive that replacing the unit itself. Even if you could get your hands on them.

As 2011 said above going with a more reputable brand might be a good option upfront cost by less messing over time.

I know Danfoss do the FC51 series if you are limited by single phase voltage supply and the unit would be CE stamped be more likley to have decet quality components.

Just lastly one mighty long shot have you tried the reset button on the keypad ?

kadman

I have indeed tried the reset button, more than once. I would have thought we were heavily reliant on chinese components across the board, in every element of manufacturing, from solar panels to car components. Is it possible to avoid them at all.

I know zero about VFD's, so whats the top brands I should be looking at. Thanks

kadman

Would i be better to just go with a convertor for all my 3 phase needs, and to forget VFD unless I need variable speed on some machines like a lathe.

Dave_D_Rave

Stuff coming China isn't a bad thing just depends what price point / quality level you are at.

This item definitely on the lower end of things like I said above Danfoss FC51 lf you are on single phase supply would be a good option

If this is the only 3 phase equipment you have then then this is probably the most cost effective way of running on three phase.

In terms of converters any I would have seen would be rotary units which all need maintenance and have large enough insufficiencies .Not sure if there are solid state options available like the VSD above

It really comes down to what your setup is.

Are you a professional using lots of 3 phase equipment on a daily basis then upgrading of 3 phase supply might be the best approach

Or are you a hobbiest using this equipment once every blue moon

And how much $ you have to spend

kadman

Professional working on a part time basis now and again on interesting woodwork projects. My only 3 phase requirement is my woodturning lathe, and have recently acquired a single end tenoner with 2 three phase motors. I would consider switching the motors to single phase.

Budget is whatever is needed with what option i choose. Full all out 3 phase upgrade at the meter is a non runner expense wise. Convertor is an option for consideration. Thanks

Most important now is to get my lathe up and running

Dave_D_Rave

No worries I'm not familiar with tenoner's just be mindful that if you swich the motors to single phase then you loose speed control from an electrical perspective.

Electrically its difficult to do any speed control on a single phase and is usually done by mechnical means i.e. gearbox.

kadman

I would like to ask what may appear to be a stupid question , but thats because of my total lack of understanding in leccy matters.

Can I fit a new VFD drive, and instead of directing my 3 phase power from it to my motor………….can i instead direct the 3 phase supply to a plug supplying a double outlet. One for my lathe motor and one for my tenoner, given that only one machine will ever be running at any time. All this considering that VFD are able to supply multiple machines.

Thanks for your patience

kadman

Luckily tenoners run at a constant motor speed so no need for variable speed control there.

Dave_D_Rave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225305#Comment_122225305

No silly questions, in theory you could do this but I would reccomend against it.

Both motors would need to be identicle. The VSD should be setup to match the motor so if there is any difference in the motor parameters then you would need to update everytime you switch between motors.

The bigger issue is putting plug and socket arrangements on VSD's is very messy as the VSD uses a screened EMC compliant cable to deal with electrical interference generated by VSD's.

I dont think there are any (that I am aware of) plug and socket arrangements on the market that allow for the correct terminations of of the EMC screen.

If you did manage to find some they wont be cheap so the separate VSD may be more cost efftective solution.

Separate VSD's is the way to go here.

kadman

One last question id there is such a thing. On the VFD for the lathe your advice is taken on board.

On the tenoner with 2 identical motors which will be running at a constant speed, I do have a 8kva diesel 3 phase generator with a single 3 phase supply socket out let. Could i get an extension lead to plug into this generator that has a twin socket outlet, and run the tenoner from this.

Thanks for your patience, your advice is much appreciated.

kadman

On the same note, I just managed to locate a supplier of VFD on my own doorstep 10 minutes away. https://www.acsdrives.ie/product/abb-acs150-micro-drives/

https://www.acsdrives.ie/product/abb-acs150-micro-drives/

Dave_D_Rave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229552#Comment_122229552

Apologies I didnt realise the tenoner has 2 motors on it. Previous reply is null and void no swapping permitted between the tenoner and lathe.

Now back to this query.

Every motor needs a "starter" by not using a starter you will run into problems such as equipment damage be it the motor or fixed wiring.

A starter is essentially the motor protection and control roled into one package.

For variable speed applications VSD is the chosen bit of kit for this. - Note that if more than one motor is connected to VSD then separate overload protection is required on each motor.

For constant speed applications DOL starter would be the most common . They can be obtained as a combined unit as per the below link. These consist of start / stop overload protection for motor and switching device called a contactor for switching heavy load of motor.

https://www.wesco.ie/products/p-le1d12v7.html?filter_set%5B%5D=326,470,473

Caveate with the DOL is that upon startup is can take approx 6-9 full load current which can sometimes trip breakers upon startup.

VSD has soft starting built in.

Rough calculation (Not sure what the motors on the tenoner are rated at) using the below made up figures for tenoner

8 kVA Generator = 11.5 Amps full load current

Tenoner Motors = 1.5kW each = 2.7 Amps each = 5.4 Amps

DOL start up current for both motors could be between 32 & 48 Amps which could well trip the Generator circuit breaker

= 5.4 * 6 = 32.4 Amps

= 5.4 * 9 = 48.6 Amps

kadman

On the lathe motor, I meant to post the specs earlier, but will post them in the next few minutes.

On the tenoner its already a plug and play machine into an existing hard wired 3 phase setup. So its complete with all switch gear and motors, switches and safety switches. Each motor is independent from the other, with separate switching. each one can be started separately, or only 1 used if chosen.

kadman

Lathe motor that has run perfectly for the last 4 years, but I was definitely slow in ensuring that it lived in a dust free environment

kadman

I collected my tenoner.

Two motors are Identical 3 phase motors

kadman

Received my new vfd this week , so just have to fit it onto my lathe later in the week.

I am thinking of running my planer on my generator, as i tried out the tenoner motors seperately and it works ok. But not had a chance with the planer yet. Specs of the planer are

Screenshot 2024-06-15 at 08-28-08 PT255 Planer Thicknesser M. Sedgwick & Co. Ltd.png

And specs of the 3 phase generator are. Will it be big enough?

Screenshot 2024-06-15 at 08-19-32 DIESEL E-Start H8500D power generator generator 2x230V-1x400V emergency generator Building & industrial machinery Official archives of Merkandi Merkandi B2B.png

kadman

The main motor of the planer driving the cutter block is this

kadman

I tried the planer this morning, and it was struggling to reach running speed, which id didn't. I took off the cover and removed the drive belt and tried it again. I ran perfectly. So realistically once the belt is fitted, along with the feed rollers, the generator wont cut it at all.

Options, bigger genny, or maybe a single phase bigger motor conversion, or an appropriate VFD unit. Appreciate any input, thankyou.