Will this be "Independence Day" from the Tories?
Voter fraud isn't an issue now precisely because photo ID is required when voting.
Remove photo ID tomorrow and any future election is guaranteed to have higher rates of voter fraud.
I don't know why he's still here. His legacy is one of abject failure. He's a posh boy who has achievement literally nothing. He clearly wants to live in California and have his children in some sort of elite school there.
The question isn't why the election has been called so abruptly but why he hasn't just left.
At this stage I am convinced he's deliberately trying to sabotage his own campaign.
The right lies:
In the past 5 years, there is no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.
Of the 1,462 cases of alleged electoral fraud reported to police between 2019 and 2023, 11 led to convictions and the police issued 4 cautions.
Most cases either resulted in the police taking no further action or were locally resolved by the police issuing words of advice.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/electoral-fraud-data
This whole argument is based on the false justification that voter fraud is an issue - it is not.
It's a deliberate removal of a right based on no evidence of utility.
It's a fabrication of the right to justify voter surpression, which is why it's part of a global coordinated campaign of gerrymandering by the right.
That can lead to voting being abused.
If you are going to vote in an election, you should need photo ID. You need to prove your identity.
People — whether young or old — who don't have photo ID should acquire it if they want to vote. If they haven't bothered to acquire photo ID in the past number of years, then that's on their indolence.
It's not compulsory to own photo ID to purchase alcohol, but there is an expectation in society that should you need to prove your age, then you should have the responsibility to acquire photo ID.
The same principle applies to voting in an election.
It's not anti-democratic because people have a choice to acquire photo ID to prove their identity.
Indeed. It's disgusting. My Irish Passport card got a few dodgy looks but no more than that, thankfully.
Exactly. Rees-Mogg admitted this openly.
Which not everyone has - especially the younger voters - which is why this is been discussed - its undemocratic to insist on photo ID when its not compulsory to own photo ID.
You need photo ID to vote in the general election
https://www.gov.uk/how-to-vote/photo-id-youll-need
A national ID card was floated by the Tories and it nearly brought the government down - not going to happen so forcing photo ID is intrinsically undemocratic in the UK.
Yes. They've had to stand by it since was introduced in Scotland in 2015, otherwise they would have been destroyed even further by the SNP… while it was in party manifesto, the mention of it in England and Wales has been very lack-lustre.
With the stats that came out after Brexit, that a few million who voted it through had died in the first 3 years (grey hair brigade, predominant voting demographic)… it may have been seen as party suicide to push for it, when there was a bit of momentum for a potential Brexit 2 vote, and the 16-25 demographic (if they turned up) mopping the floor with a yes vote… which would have seen Labour having to u-turn on manifesto pledged and a potential Lib Dem government in this election (if they had of won in 2019(?)).
Edit: the devolved Labour government in Wales brought in voting in local elections for 16+ last year.
As for the whole fit for work assessments in the UK that are being outsourced
It's happening here too. Medmark is an "independent" ( 🤣 ) review organisation that companies use to argue against employee's GP's when they've been declared unfit for work. Companies use Medmark to effectively neutralise medical opinions and force the employee back into the workplace, regardless of whether they are fit or not, and if the employee refuses to go back, even on the advice of their GP, they can get sanctioned for it, up to and including dismissal.
Medmark, BTW, was set up by Eamon Ryan's brother to tackle teachers, but recently private companies have been getting in on the act too.
Another handy little number on Treasure Ireland.
Well then maybe Photo ID i.e like the Public Services card we have in Ireland should simply the introduced as soon as Labour get into Power and there won't be any issue at all going forward.They can fix this issue almost instantly if they want to so I assume they will, they're no reason why they wouldn't.You should have to provide Photo ID to vote simple as that.It's bizzare that voting is ever allowed without it.
I'd no idea it was a thing this time last week.
The whole 'Military or Social service' for 18 y.os is bound to back fire on them. Whatever about getting a few older nostalgics to vote Conservatives, all polls show that the younger voter both favours anyone except Tories more but paradoxically tend to vote a lot less. A policy that directly targets them, and makes them work weekends for free, is bound to cut through their lethargy and get them to vote. A higher number of young people voting, especially in response to a particular Tory policy, will not be good news for their candidates.
Then if you really think that is true and if Labour do they have no problem letting the public decide whether its a good policy and putting it to the vote.Note the parties that have proposed this change to the voting age Labour and SNP previously only wanted it to happen because they realise young people liked them at the time.That is why it isn't a good policy because its done purely for the interest of the political parties proposing it
16 in my opinion is far too young to be allowed to vote.They've never had any experience of the real world .
Did labour's commitment to giving 16yos the vote predate the election being called? I.e. was it already party policy?
Far from strawman… Cadets are part of the military… you can get weapons training at 14 with them, what is the difference between that and a Junior soldier doing similar at 16. Both scenarios they chose to join the military.
There are better arguments for voting at 16 (see SNP's arguments for the Scottish independent referendum).
Like the HSE and HSCNI the NHS's are your first port of call for anything life threatening. The for-profit healthcare being championed by the Tories not so much.
He's is a Tory MP who after all the Tory cuts likened his prosthetics to "something out of medieval times". I glad he got better ones (there go I etc), it would be nice if everyone got them. Especially since the UK sends people off to war zones.
As for the whole fit for work assessments in the UK that are being outsourced , I'm reminded of Blackadder Season 2 Episode 2 where Lady Farrow asking to see her husband "You'll be telling me his arm's grown back next"
As much of a hash the Tory's have made things… there is a LOT of people who don't want to vote for Labour/Lib Dems/Greens and don't see the point in voting Independent.
They are looking for ANYTHING to keep them with Conservatives…. The military vet vote is MASSIVE… there is also huge disparity between the attitude of teens and young adults compared with the main voting demographic (who quite frankly think youngsters are a waste of space and could do with doing something constructive (***not my opinion)… whether this is enough to sway that is a big question…. I think it will be on what Labour has to offer in return.
volunteer work for charities being made mandatory
I'd be curious about how many charities would take up the offer of volunteers who don't want to be there.
Neoliberalism is very happy with increased spending on the armed forces and those guns, ships and aircraft all need people to use them.
I'm not interested in strawmen. We're done.
I doubt anyone would have an issue with the idea of teenagers, or anyone else, doing volunteering or community work. But a party proposing to make people do it, a party which has not exactly been kind to community projects where they're most needed; a real 'final sting of a dying wasp' election promise just looks farcical.
In a system governed by Neo-liberal economic dogma - no system of national service would ever get over the starting line. Why because its massively expensive and would require huge numbers of additional public servants to administer. Its just a cynical ploy. I don't personally have any issue with some form of public service (but compulsory military service is a big no no for me) if it was adequately funded and actually brought educational value to the participants.
They did away with the old National Service for a good reason - it brought no value to anyone and the armed services hated it.
if it were black and white where they had potential to go to war… of course..
No one under 18 goes to war currently.
Some of the training applied to a "junior soldier" is similar to the training you go through if you join cadets (12-18yo)
Should 12yo's vote? Your argument would point towards it.
Have you any evidence for this? In my experience, the people with the most extreme views are older people who often live in real life echo chambers.
That assumes that its not the right policy. I don't share that assumption.
Lowering the voting age to 16 sounds good until we factor in that young people are more prone to extremism and radicalism due to their limited life experiences.
I'd push for increasing the voting age to 25, same with alcoholc consumption. That is when the frontal lobe is mature, so the person in question is more likely to have a greater understanding of how complex life is.
As for the while National Service thing, it isn't just National Servoce, but also volunteer work for charities being made mandatory (bit of an juxtaposition there) for those who are unemployed and not in further education. So, there are ways around it, get a job (not always easy), or study. A lot of other European countries do this, and that seems to work well, so can't see the issue with it for the UK.
It should be a choice, not an obligation though. It's also obscenely unfair to expect only 18 year olds to this while exempting everyone else.
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