Two cars so far, the other cars in my family they have seen no range lost either, or nothing they can put a finger on
2 x eGolf
1 x original leaf(bought second hand but didn't last long before a crash and was written off)
1 x Kona
1 x Volvo
If it makes a difference, none of them use public chargers and all home charging
Also quick point, the Leaf written off actually saved the drivers Leaf based on the crash expert, if it was a combustion car it would have flipped over, because the battery was in the floor it kept the car on its wheels
Somethign you won't hear about in the negative press
Personal experience trumps imaginary numbers that were plucked out of thin air. If you want more thorough statistics you could maybe look at this survey: https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/the-truth-about-electric-car-battery-degradation-apYqu1y6IYnr As of a 2022 survey, cars that were 3 years old at that time still had an average of 98% of battery remaining. 7 year old cars still had 95% of their original battery life. A far cry from the 15% drop after 3 years that you suggested in your prior post.
Are you really saying you can't hear a petrol or Diesel engine?
You need to ask the people who've been hit by them. Shouldn't be hard to find.
And if the motor was nosier than the tyres it would suggest a speed of <20kmh
No, Iâm saying you will hear any fast car, electric or combustion, the same so making up some bulls**t story about a fast electric car doesnât really fool anyone
Well anyone with sense
Outside of warranty there is possibly only about 3 garages in Ireland that actively repair EV batteries. Lots more options available if you need an engine repaired or even replaced.
That's because BEVs are only 1-3% of the cars on the road and need repair very rarely unlike ICE car engines and gearboxes.
I have personal experience of a car with an internal combustion engine whose range was nowhere near the stated. When I queried this with the dealer he said that the engine had degraded and what was stated was the range "brand new" and that this is to be expected
So range drop is not a phenomenon solely related to EVs
Any fool with a spanner can repair most of the things that need fixing on an EV. Unless you are talking specifically about the battery, motor and charging unit. While these are unlikely to ever fail but there are 11 such garages, not 3, on the island that are HEVRA certified.
You really need to stop believing the FUD if you want to continue driving into the 2030's
Battery servicing companies will develop as the market is needed, 8-year warranties are now mandated on EV batteries.
There aren't many EVs on our roads that are older than 8 years, and the number of them that need battery servicing is going to be even lower again. It's one of those things that you have to live with as an early adopter.
Why would you need a battery repair done?
Then again how many times have engine gone to an extend you need a massive repair that would be similar to a battery going?
Plu sin reality if an engine goes to the extend of a battery repair the car will most likely be written off.
Itâs not necessarily comparing like with like though is it?
Again for consumers in general and not me in particular, if the stated max range of a new EV is small enough (say 249km) when new, in reality we know that with typical driving behaviour and winter weather that could be more like 180km -that in itself is a concern for many would be purchasers - the fact that it âcouldâ reduce down further over time is definitely a factor for many would be buyers.
Most run if the mill ICE cars - either petrol or diesel will do many 100s of kms minimum on a full tank - with a short stop for refuel always at hand if needed - itâs definately still a concern for many buyers
If you need max range with F1 style pit stops buy a ICE. End of problem.
I do 180km so rarely it's a non issue for me.
The issue for the industry isn't why people who don't do long journeys aren't buying EVs. It's why people who don't do long journeys (which is the majority of people) aren't buying them.
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176020#Comment_122176020
I wouldn't read much into that survey just as I don't read much into any car reliability or ownership surveys. Owners are biased, mistaken, non-technical, forgetful, mathematically challenged and can't be relied on.
That Which? survey use the following question to come up with its degradation "statistics".
When your [electric car model] is fully charged please estimate how the current maximum range compares to the original maximum range when you bought your car.
An "estimate" and not a good one given that very few people will test the range of their car to breakdown while taking account of variables like tenperature etc. Let alone doing this while they are buzzing with excitement over their lovely new car. And as the survey lumped in cars that were bought used, for all we know the first owner could have experienced significant degradation from new.
Batteries degrade, that's a fact. As for how much, I'd pay far more attention to the battery capacity findings of one man (Bjorn Nyland) than some range survey. As can be seen from this he has found 5.8-15.7% degradation in 1-2 year old Tesla Model 3s
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzvvWJHrBS82echMVJH37kwgjE/edit#gid=244400016
I guess maybe cost in the past when compared to their traditional purchases - costs of production though have massively risen since in the last 4 years, the very time EV sales are taking off - so EVs have got a name for themselves as being over priced -but with every year weâre seen improved range and wider offerings as well as slowly reducing sale prices, I guess many purchasers are waiting for that tipping point where the EVs that are being offered are much closer to their price point and also that the range figure is âacceptableâ - it might happen soon enough - if I were in the market for a new EV, Iâd really want some reassurance around resale value- weâre hearing a lot of stories and indeed a hell of a lot of posts on this forum around garages not wanting to trade in EVs or giving stupidly low offers for them- whatâs that all about as I certainly wouldnât buy new right now with that going on?
Yes and no. The range never really enters people's consciousness with an ICE because they can pull into a forecourt and fill up. However, the dip in range on an ICE translates to spending more money on fuel. The dip in range with an EV translates to spending more time charging. The EV engine doesn't lose efficiency because there is no carbon build-up. The question is⊠which is worth more; time or money?
If range is an issue, then you don't have the flexibility of being able to pull into a forecourt at will and fill up quickly with an EV. Conversely, you don't have the ability to wake up every morning with a full tank with an ICE unless you have a pump at home.
But is range really the issue? Many people look at 180km range and think that's nothing⊠it's not enough. However, the national mileage average is 17,000km per year, or 326km per week / 65.2km per day (based on a 5-day working week).
let's hypothesise⊠If the range dropped to 150km on a full charge, you could still achieve an annual mileage equivalent of 39,000km per year based on a 5-day working week and driving 150km per day (no driving at the weekend). Perhaps the owner wants to have at least 10% battery by the time they get home (no squeaky bum), then you're looking at being able to drive 35,100km per year or 135km per day based on the same parameters. Those figures are over double the national average.
I'm saying this because the range argument is constantly being thrown about, and the reality is that for many, as per the national average, it is not an issue, or it's a far smaller concern than it's made out to be. I guarantee that if people sat down and charted their driving, many would find that something that could cover 150km a day would be ample for their needs. Yes, they may have some trips that would require a stop, but is that really enough of a reason to completely dismiss an EV?
I'm not saying this suits everyone; some people do a lot of driving and 150km range would be a nightmare. Others may not be able to add home charging which is in my opinion, vital for owning an EV.
Sure but that's because the ICE car market is much more mature than the EV one. Go back to when ICE cars first came to Ireland and you will see the exact same issues EVs have now. Fun fact, in 1904 there were 38 cars registered and a handfull of petrol stations but people were still wanting to buy them
My very first car was a 12 year old 1.3L fiesta, it had a range of about 240km.
âYes, they may have some trips that would require a stop, but is that really enough of a reason to completely dismiss an EV?â
Actually I think for some people it is- if youâve spent all this money on a new car but feel you canât drive your new purchase down the country (5-6 times a year) without having to organise to stop to recharge, thatâs a key issue for many would- be purchasers.
Whether it makes âsenseâ to you or I doesnât really matter- consumers donât act rationally is what I learned in economics class many years ago đ
What reassurances do you get on an ICE vehicle regarding resale value? there is the very real risk that at some point the government does something that devalues an ICE vehicle significantly over night.
If you've spent all this money on a new car, your range isn't going to be 150km. If you're buying a used EV with a range of 150km, you're not spending a lot.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2012/37014662 Battery Range (NEDC): 175 km / Cost âŹ1,885.
Whether it makes âsenseâ to you or I doesnât really matter- consumers donât act rationally is what I learned in economics class many years ago
No, they listen to FUD and accept it as gospel without doing any research.
That's very true. People generally don't like to stop while on a long journey. This is clearly evidenced by the severe lack of motorway service stations in this countryâŠ
Itâs very likely motor tax will gradually increase on ICE from now on making them less attractive - when restricted zones and daily charges for ICE around the cities comes in eventually that will also decrease their value - but we know that
indeed, the ones that are there arent busy at allâŠ..
but you dont know the impact itll have on resale
Then don't buy a new one.
Call it FUD/stupidity/ignorance if you wish but I've been driving EVs for over 6 years and there is no way I would buy another one with a range of 180km unless it was for a song and used only as a local run around
I've suffered the short range EVs and don't voluntary intend ito do it again
Ireland is tiny, believe me I drive all over it and after haven't driven around Europe/US and the outback, Ireland is tiny.
10 years ago the range on a EV was questionable and required a lot of planning. Today for someone buying a new model with the range they provide I am not sure why you think people will need to stop all that much?
Also with hotels etc having destination chargers you can arrive, plug in car and enjoy the break.
If you are ruling out a car that could be used 365 days a year with decent saving because 4-5 times you might need to refuel on a journey then in reality you never wanted to buy electric in the first place. That would equal 1% of the car usage if using daily.
I would say the same if you are buying a diesel instead of a hybrid because you have 6 long journeys. It doesn't add up to anyone, well to me anyway
I don't know of any other product that someone would rule out because of 1% of the time it might be a little bit more difficult to use
Well that's not a range issue as you implied. That a bloody minded issue.
If someone wants to a car for nonstop 8 hour journeys and F1 style pitstops they should go buy one.
https://youtu.be/R79yYo2aOZs?si=fljv-DDNEoVw64dE
If you look at London ULEZ basically any newish ICE car that's not ridiculous is allowed. Hence you see a lot of small ICE cars and less BEVs because theres just no incentive unless you really want a BEV. Also many people in London don't have home charging.
Also a factor why you see mega expensive hybrids more than you'd expect.
It certainly be interesting how the tax plays out in Ireland. The govt really pulled the rug from EV incentives a little early.
