And when that was pointed out to me, I've held my hands up on that specific point.
But with regards he EI tour specifically, the point I made was the following; I still stand by it and think it is objectively true:
The other provinces will likely all be missing guys who are more important to them than the Leinster equivalents. Like I said last time, Cian Prendergast is more important to Connacht than Deegan is to Leinster. I'd go as far as saying Prendergast is more important to Connacht than Doris is to Leinster.
It's the exact argument I made last time, and was repeatedly told it'd make no difference.
I get where you're coming from with that option but then the lads are only ramping up their fitness involved and you lose some of the value.
It becomes more of a preseason conditioning tour than trying to assess the players in an Irish camp/tour type capacity.
From a province perspective you're basically left with NIQs, journey men, and academy lads for preseason.
Are you not aware that we can see your posts from this afternoon?
Is there not a difference between managing minutes across a season versus missing 9 players all at the same time for 3 games?
Strong disagree; managing them across the season allows far more forward planning, looking at the fixture list etc.Whereas we now have no idea who the provinces will be playing during the EI tour, but we know there will be 7,8,9 players missing.
Strong disagree; managing them across the season allows far more forward planning, looking at the fixture list etc.
Whereas we now have no idea who the provinces will be playing during the EI tour, but we know there will be 7,8,9 players missing.
You were crystal clear regarding your opinion, don't try to move the goal posts now.
I wouldn't, if I was you, it started out reasonably interesting then took a nose dive
Think we should do a poll to consider changing the thread's name to "The Ireland Thread (or 'Testing Alooof's Patience')"
I think during pre-season games is the best, though it is still a massive imposition. But I think the cost-benefit makes the most sense there.
213 new messages in the Ireland threat… what delights await if I navigate back to review?
Your claim that managing EI tour absences is more difficult than Leinster having to deal with central contract rest has completely fallen apart.
That wasn’t my claim. It literally wasn’t.
The problem is that there isn't a good answer for it.
No matter when you do it, someone wont be happy.
There is zero evidence for those numbers for the first half of that season, even ignoring EI players getting extra opportunities for exposure because of first team injuries.
That was pure imagination, so zero surprise you've ninja edited.
Maybe the grass on the other side of the hill isn't quite as green as you thought.
EDIT: Y'know what? Never mind….
I’d say that’s very interesting but a completely different argument
To be fair, I've never said it's a massively unfair imposition; the issue I had was with some posters suggesting it made no difference.
It clearly did.
I think we largely agree in the main, tbh.
This is big alright. La rochelle have flamed out after two years of it. Theres lots of storys in ither sports also. Mins accumulate particularly for guys like furlong and porter
After all this, I still think the EI tour shouldn't be during the URC, but it's just not some massively unfair imposition on certain teams.
Just for the pedants out there, these are the guys Leinster are missing here:
Hugo Keenan, Jimmy O’Brien, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe, Jamison Gibson Park, Andrew Porter, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong, Joe McCarthy, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris, Jack Conan, Ronan Kelleher, Cian Healy.
That’s 17 players - effectively forced to miss these games because of the fact you can’t play your internationals every single week, especially when going deep in Europe.
So you're agreeing that Munster weren't asked to miss 9 of their first choice players?
Three consecutive Leinster squads this season. Rounds 10 11 and 12 of the URC.
There are a lot more than 9 players who don’t feature below.
H McErlean; T O’Brien, L Turner, J Osborne, R Russell; R Byrne, L McGrath; J Boyle, L Barron, T Clarkson; R Molony, J Jenkins; W Connors, S Penny, M Deegan.
Replacements: J McKee, E Byrne, M Ala’alatoa, B Deeny, R Ruddock, B Murphy, S Prendergast, B Brownlee
J Larmour; L Turner, J Osborne, H Byrne, R Russell, R Byrne, L McGrath; J Boyle, L Barron, T Clarkson; R Molony, J Jenkins; W Connors, S Penny, M Deegan.
Replacements: J McKee, M Milne, M Ala'alatoa, B Deeny, R Ruddock, B Murphy, S Prendergast, B Brownlee
C Frawley; R Russell, L Turner, J Osborne, A Osborne; R Byrne, L McGrath; E Byrne, L Barron, T Clarkson; R Molony, J Jenkins; W Connors, S Penny (capt), Max Deegan.
Replacements: J McKee, M Milne, M Ala’alatoa, B Deeny, D Mangan, F Gunne, S Prendergast, H McErlean.
There’s also two other factors that show the difficulty Leinster have that the other three provinces don’t have in recent years:
Leinster have gone as far as possible in Europe 4 times in the past 6 seasons, as well as being bulk supplier to the Ireland squad for a 6 Nations campaign in the middle of the season.
This means that not only do Leinster’s frontline players play huge minutes but they play far more high intensity minutes at the very biggest stage.
I had looked at comping this prior to the last weekend of rugby and at that point, by comparing Leinster’s likely 23 for the final next weekend to Munster’s first choice 23, the cumulative minutes played are considerably higher (c. 2,200 mins higher) for the Leinster contingent, and once again, if you think of the make up of those minutes (European Cup knock outs and international matches) anyone suggesting Leinster’s “depth” players aren’t important to them are utterly clueless.
No one knows who was 1st, 2nd, 3rd choices for Munster last time around, we had a completely new set of coaches and a new game plan.
Leinster's first 3 games this season:
https://www.unitedrugby.com/match-centre/202301/united-rugby-championship/glasgow-warriors-vs-leinster-rugby-2023-10-22/276146#tabs-lineups
https://www.unitedrugby.com/match-centre/202301/united-rugby-championship/leinster-rugby-vs-hollywoodbets-sharks-2023-10-28/276150#tabs-lineups
https://www.unitedrugby.com/match-centre/202301/united-rugby-championship/leinster-rugby-vs-edinburgh-rugby-2023-11-04/276158#tabs-lineups
Easily missing 10+ starters for each
Though I largely agree with the complaints, the tour shouldn't overlap with URC games.
The exact same argument was rolled out last time. Now look at the list of players and tell me they were 3rd or 4th choice:
Frisch, Daly, Nash, Crowley, Hodnett, Ahern, Barron, Salanoa, Wycherly.
Seems Like some think others should be happy with the pain but not the benefits
This.
I am surprised at the lack of awareness about how many players Leinster miss at the start of practically every season.
Then there are Irish camps when that number aren't there, during test windows when the Irish starters aren't released on rest weekends, then they have a choice at the end of the season of either having no continuity by picking a mixed bag in matches between CC knockouts or resting them in bulk, like the SA tours the last two years.
Seems like certain posters want all the benefits of Irish involvement but none of the pain.
I bring him up when hes relevant to the conversation
You do your best
You're not being asked to rest 9 of their first choice players for 3 straight matches.
You're getting upset about missing some back-ups, 3rd, or 4th choice players for 3 matches.
Sure they have, at the exact same time of the year, every year for the last few.
Most discussions i would think
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