Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
Ah thank you - Wolney, of course.
What I read somewhere that I can't now find, was that Wolney's wife divorced him on the grounds of domestic violence; that he was a musician who played a gig in Crookhaven the night of the crime, and returned home alone; therefore, no alibi. That he lived somewhere near Dunmanus so he knew the area and would have been passing nearby.
And then he headed back to Germany and took his own life saying he "had done something terrible"
Well, I would LOVE to know his account of his own movements for the 24 hours during which the crime took place!
Some kind of lust for violence would be the only motive I could think of for Bailey. He could hardly take out any kind of lust for violence on Jules anymore, he's been in trouble for that one before, and it would have been hard to hide it from the police. Easier to take it out on a woman who is hardly ever in the area anyway and only on a fleeting visit. It's by far more credible that he would hike for one hour after a night out in the pub with a bottle of expensive French wine, knock on Sophie's door, recite poetry demand sex, and kill her out of rejection, as some are suggesting here in this forum.
The name is Karl Heinz Wolney, not Wolnar. He was the German musician who returned to Germany soon after and committed suicide stating that "he did something terrible" - whatever that terrible was, we don't know.
I think there was also a French man ( not Bruno or any of Sophie's friends from back in France) who was of interest to the police at some point. He also seems to have returned to France. Then there was another French man who was apparently a business associate of Daniel and has apparently followed her around during her trip to her cottage? Apparently that's the man the Guards spoke to recently in Paris? Don't know if he could fit into the "hitman theory" but that's a bit to easy to track to Daniel, if it was true? But then what would he have done in Ireland following Sophie? - That is if the statements of Marie Farrell were to be believed at all?
There were also stories about a "peeping tom" as well as a mentally ill man who was known to have stalked women.
No, not that Mystery Cop. The one I mean is the nameless one, local man, darkly whispered to be violent and to have affairs all round. I've heard this rumour from two separate people with contacts in Schull. He may even have been Mystery Passenger with Mrs Farrell on the fateful night.
As a matter of fact, police officers as a profession tend to have a high rate of domestic violence; sad but true. A high-testosterone job with a lot of aggression in the daily job and a lot of stress and burnout.
I'm not saying I completely believe in ANY of these mystery men or conspiracy theories. It's always an easy score to blame an inside job or a cover-up when something is hard to explain or to solve. I'd still be dead interested in Karl Wolnar, though. I feel he hasn't been gone into enough.
and the Mystery Cop
You know the mystery cop/randy Guarda from Bantry is a line of enquiry brought to you by Bailey?
Listen to the West Cork podcast, he talks about getting a letter from an anonymous source saying that there is or was this Guarda in Bantry with a eye for foreign women.
I would assume he knew she was there and probably alone and if he was the killer
The motive for the visit ?
Take your pick , an infatuation or even an obsession or simply a drunken desire to meet this attractive french visitor or sex
This is all informed speculation on my part
Informed by the belief that Bailey probably lied about knowing Sophie and lied about his alibi , the case file etc
Bailey may not be the killer . I am not certain of his guilt
Why would he "traipse" anywhere, when he had access to a car? The gate on Sophie's lane was open and pushed right back, strongly suggesting a vehicle. The Guards examined the car (owned by Jules Thomas but used by both her and Mr Bailey) and they didn't find a trace of anything untoward - not a drop of blood, in spite of the brutal and bloody murder committed; It is impossible that the killer didn't have blood on them after inflicting the horrific injuries to their victim.
And Bailey wasn't the only man in the area with a record of domestic violence.
There's also Karl Heinz Wolnar, and the Mystery Cop. And probably others.
All sounds very familiar, same old going round in circles as a couple of months ago.
Was it Tommy something or Frank something back then? Best ignored.
So for what reason do you believe that Bailey traipse the kilometres on a cold winters night to Sophies house (without even knowing that she was there and alone)?
Yet Bailey never wrote of that in his extensive and graphic writings. How do you explain this omission?
Posters keep talking about sex
I've never mentioned it as a reason for bailey calling to sophie afaik
People become infatuated and obsessed and are not necessarily driven by a desire for sex with the person
Bailey's violence was not carried out on strangers so him suddenly wandering the roads at night in the off chance that he could beat up a solitary woman doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Furthermore, Sophie is unlikely to have answered the door in the middle of the night to a drunk stranger, put on her boots and then walked him back down the lane. Sophie had to have known her killer or else, as some have suggested, was protecting her property
Most murders are the outcome of some other crime, if that crime is sexual in nature, the murder is sexual. No evidence.
A lust for violence is actually pretty common, if you to any town in Ireland you will see drunk people looking for a fight, every night. Bailey had a violent streak, there is no doubt, but he didn't have a sexual nature to his violence from what I can see. But the murder seen doesn't really point to a lust for violence over and above any other cause imo. Once the perpetrator decided to kill Sophie, what more could they do to other than beat her to a pulp using weapons at hand. It is inherently going to be brutal if you want to make certain she is dead. Strangulation, is the only other option I could see but how would you be certain then either, unless you had killed before. Do people think that they could just offer her the option to go jump off a cliff?
The motive for murder and the murder scene are two different things, also what "sexual" means.
Fact is that the murder scene did not appear to have any indication of an attempted rape. And as written so often I don't think that Bailey's motive for killing Sophie, if he really did it, would ever have been sexual.
Waiting for 5 or 6 month for a French woman to turn up unexpected at Christmas, only to hike there for one hour in the middle of the night and after a couple of drinks just to cheat on Jules doesn't sound credible to me. Also Bailey could not have been sure, that Sophie would be visiting around Christmas, so if he really wanted to sleep with Sophie he could easily have waited another 3 to 4 months. And that is not knowing if she would be visiting alone or with some lover from France, somebody like Bruno.
Another motive for Bailey that particular night could have been the general lust for violence, or a hidden lust fur murder even. Considering Jules would have lead straight to him, plus there were others staying over at the house as well, so he could have considered a lone woman? Not impossible to think of, I think.
It'll be different if we define "sexual" more into the direction of "relationship". Bruno? Some other ex-lover? Somebody who knew he certainly couldn't have sex with her that night, but in reality wanted a relationship, but she continuously rejected him.
I'm open to be challenged on any particular point I've raised. I think there has been a lot of interesting developments of late, in particular from @bjsc but also others. People like @drury.. come on rehashing old points with nothing new to say. Some things have come out here that were not previously known or widespread in the public domain, which by itself merits some acknowledgement, celebration I would say in the search for justice.
Yeah, not up to the standards of all the Hercule Poirots and Miss Marples on this thread..
I agree with all your points, it's just straight up misogyny, remove the sexual element and the case against Bailey falls apart completely. There was no evidence of sexual intentions, it was all made up. If Sophie was a man, or even and old Irish woman, Bailey would not have even been considered at all based on the evidence.
Same thing happens when it is an immigrant, or black person etc. people make assumptions based on the individual characteristics, instead of just recognising the vast majority of the time it has nothing to do with it.
I suspect that you are correct. I am curious about people who are so set in their beliefs yet don't appear to have any solid foundation for them when you ask a few basic questions. It is just a little strange to me.
I think @drury.. has run their course, rehashing the same old thread comments and theories, nothing new being brought to the table
How does somebody being introduced 18 months prior in any way mean they know them? I have been introduced to my neighbours, yet I don't know them and they live in the same street as me. What relevance does that introduction 18 months prior have if it even happened?
What French guy?
Not really
I think Alfie said 90% he introduced them then there was more , the French guy etc
Bailey says no
+His alibi sucks
Umm so thats not much of a theory or motive you have there. Based on what you have written the same could apply to anyone in the area. There are no witnesses who have 100% confirmed or have evidence that Bailey knew Sophie - none.
I am asking you. What witnesses?
About 4-5 witnesses total afaik
Read back
Its all disputed here
He lied about knowing her yet he wrote nothing in his diary that contains his many ramblings? Why would he lie about knowing her at Alfie's party months before the murder though?
What witnesses?
I believe bailey lied about the alibi and knowing her
That a large percent of the belief that he killed her
How tf do i know exactly?
Probably knew her as said by many witnesses
May have known she was alone
May have been attracted to her , thought of himself as a poetic type ?
My theory is only what I believe is most likely
I think you are missing the point - I want you to discuss why you think Bailey was attracted to Sophie - what stoked his interest?
What was so special about Sophie that makes you think he went there late at night/early morning, risking that she wasnt even alone?
Is your scenario that Bailey randomly walked over to Sophie's cottage around 2-3am on the off-chance of sex?
You're totally misreading my posts
The fact that she was an attractive french woman merely stoked the interest
Its not that which links bailey to the crime or the reason for the murder
I already stated the reasons for the murder -rejection and violent initial encounter
What links bailey to the crime is everything in the public domain and whatever else isn't
The dodgy case file etc
That's why I make him the likely killer and no more than that
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