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Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes & Discussion

devnull

Following a recent tender competition run by the DAA for bus stops, a shake-up of bus and coach services to Dublin Airport at the Airport, including the provision of additional services, and changes to bus stops served are going ahead in February and March.

As part of the tender process, DAA were encouraging and providing incentives for operators to expand services to areas deemed to be underserved as well as the provision of 24 hour services. The incentives included promotion of said new routes and media credits at Dublin Airport.

The tender document that these stops were let under can be [URL="javascript:DownloadPublicDocument('2077214','sDoc_2077214','172161');"]found here[/URL].

New Operator - Dublin Express - Services Commenced 3rd March 2020
National Express started three new 24 hour routes serving Dublin City from Dublin Airport, under the brand of Dublin Express, operated by Bernard Kavanagh on 3rd March 2020.

782 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dubin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Smithfield
783 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay
784 - Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Merrion Square

The new services depart from directly outside the front door of both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at Dublin Airport, the spots which were previously occupied by Aircoach.

Stop Changes for Existing Services - Phase 1 - 4th February 2020
On 4th February 2020 services operated by Bus Eireann, JJ Kavanagh, CityLink, GoBus and Translink saw their bus stops at Dublin Airport move to new locations.

Stop Changes for Existing Services - Phase 2 - 3rd March 2020
Since 3rd March 2020, Aircoach no longer serve the front door of either terminal and depart from Zone 11 of the airport, at T1 and will no longer pick up or drop off passengers at T2.

The new operator Dublin Express, from the same date, took over the stops directly outside the front door of both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.

New Bus Stop Layout
Click here for the new bus stops zone map in force from 3rd March 2020.

Potential Provision of extra services
National Express have been granted a license for the following services.

785 - Airport to Clontarf (Via Clarehall, Raheny and Fairview)

No indication as of yet has been given when this service may be starting up.

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Comments

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994063#Comment_121994063

I didn’t mean now as it’s long after the event but rather yesterday at the time. No one would even have been the wiser about your identity as you didn’t need to link the tweet here but could have merely referenced it.

Sometimes there’s a bigger picture to life and I’d personally value helping someone out more than making a point about Aircoach and their very clear shortcomings which I agree fall well short of what you’d expect of a bus company,

It’s a rather sad point in society where people don’t see helping others out as a civic thing to do. But hey that’s just me.

monument

Back on topic, please. The topic isn't why a boards.ie user isn't posting something on Twitter… devnull has already answered the question far more than anybody would expected to.

Thank you,

moderator

mickmmc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912168#Comment_121912168

A comparision between Go Bus and Aircoach - Cork Dublin

I travelled on Gobus Cork to Dublin Airport for the first time recently for timing reasons.

I was disappointed to find that the Volvo 9900 on the route had no footrest. I find it great to rest your legs on the footrest for this long journey. Also, the Volvo 9900 seat was a bit hard. The leg room is good with a table and net for storing items.

The Tourismos on the Cork route are a fine coach with a footrest, comfortable seat and good heating. The drawback of the Aircoach Tourismos is that the legroom is limited.

I find the Panthers are terrible for rattling and have poor heating. The Tourismo has solved those issues for me at least on the Cork route.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009127#Comment_122009127

I’ve used both, the new Aircoach Merc and the Citylink/Gobus Volvo 9900 same weekend.

The new Aircoach Mercs are terrible, the fact that I’ve only used in once and have religiously used the Citylink service a dozen times since says it all!

Yes, no leg rest, sort of a personal thing, it does mean more space for luggage. I’ve never really liked or used them, but I’m sure you/other prefer it.

But no table, no net, no plug sockets, no curtains and the USB ports being overhead is all pretty rubbish and cheap. Folks having to hold their phone in their hand for three hours with the USB cable dangling down sucks!

I also didn’t find the seats are particularly comfortable.

But by far the worst is the legroom, I’m not a tall person, but it is far too cramped and it makes the whole experience miserable on a busy coach. The guy next to me had to spread his legs wide to fit, thus encroaching on my space too making it uncomfortable for us both. When I was on it there were lots of miserable looking folks with legs uncomfortably squeezed against the seat in front of them or trying to dangle the legs out in the passage way (which is helped by the Aisle seats able to move out).

Maybe it would be somewhat okay on a quiet coach, if the seat next to you was free, but a busy coach it is miserable.

The Citylink Volvo 9900 is VASTLY superior IMO, no comparison. I go to Cork monthly, I was on the Aircoach Merc almost a year ago and haven’t been back!

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009127#Comment_122009127

The problem with the Tourismo is it could and should have been a good coach for them and a vast improvement on Panthers. But expecting to get a full sized wheelchair lift and a toilet and 53 seats in the shortest variant was a stupid decision but honestly does not surprise me considering how much the company has regressed over the years in terms of the onboard environment

They either had to go for a slightly longer variant or cut a row of seats. But their unwillingness to compromise and their penny wise and pound foolish decisions are at fault here. Look at how much they threw at the Galway route and Derry route so far. Some of that money would have been far better spent on going for the longer Tourismo with USB ports in the right place and still having curtains. But instead they spent a fair whack on premium coach model only to heavily scrimp on the spec. Nuts.

Sadly being 6ft3 the Aircoach Cork service is the last option for me these days as the experience does not offer a pleasant experience.

[Deleted User]

on the old Volvo 9600 you could slide the seat out an inch or two towards the aisle via a lever under the seat. Majority of travellers didn’t know this comfortable feature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012761#Comment_122012761

Including myself! Despite taking the 9700’s for years, I didn’t know this!

Not that you really needed it, they had plenty of space.

The reason I know the Aircoach Mercs have it is because when I was on it the driver went down the rows showing people how to do it and even help them do it. Which was great of him, but a clear sign that they knew people were very uncomfortable with the legroom on it.

BTW do the 9900’s have this feature?

p_haugh

...

https://m.independent.ie/business/were-flying-everything-is-ahead-of-schedule-dublin-express-on-track-for-record-growth-amid-looming-parking-shortage-at-airport/a310054567.html

Wonder what new routes/locations they could potentially serve...

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137538#Comment_122137538

One of the key paragraphs there is the fact that they have now done a deal with Ryanair as the airline market is one of few commercial areas they didn't have cornered.

They are very much actively commercially and I've heard from a number of sources they are looking at possibilities to grow the business by organic growth, potential acquisitions and tenders. They have a dedicated staff member now whose sole job is to grow the organisation via these three strands.

I wouldn't be surprised to see DX to grow substantially over the next few years, they've got people who know the way things work and are commercially very savvy and are prepared to really have a go and think outside the box. At first I was sceptical about them coming to Ireland but they've proven me wrong.

devnull

Aircoach Update

On the subject of Aircoach, they've had vehicles around south Dublin a fair bit recently doing what appears to be test runs for possible changes to their 700/702/703 routes. For several days it was the same time every day that they were doing loops of various places so it suggests some changes may well be on the cards in the future.
Aircoach have also relaunched the coach tracker, but I cannot say the UI is great. All it does is allow you to pick the scheduled time of your departure from your stop and then shows you where all the coaches are on that route on a map. Even when you click a coach on the map it only shows the time that coach was due to leave the terminus and there is no functionality to give an ETA of when the coach might arrive. Being able to see them on the map is helpful, but for a tourist it really would be helpful to show an estimated time. Considering how long it's been down for, it's disappointing.
Student tickets are no longer available on the 704X/705X. However the way they've gone about this is really poor. If you select a student rather than an adult on the booking system and select a to/from point on these routes, it simply tells you no services are found. Which makes it look like no tickets are available. Surely it's not too hard to simply do what they do on the 700, which is not even allow a student ticket to be selected on the home page?

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015473#Comment_122015473

It's certainly an option on the spec, but I don't know about the GoBus ones. Typically the one time I got it in the last few months there was a sub!

dublinman1990

There's been a tweet on X stating that a new Seaside Discovery bus route funded from Dún Laoghaire Rathdown County Council will begin service from this Sunday. The new route will go from the DL Ferry Terminal to the back of St Michaels Hospital via Sandycove & Glasthule. The new route includes a new bus stop located in the grounds of the Royal Marine Hotel in Dún Laoghaire.

The 703 from Aircoach obviously goes in there as well. I'm just wondering how is this is going to work out from Sunday.

I also want to ask @devnull to give us some more info about the test changes planned for the 700/702/703 for Aircoach. I don't know if there will be any radical changes to these routes in the near future. Will the new test version of the 703 continue to serve areas like Blackrock, Dún Laoghaire and Dalkey as we head into the remainder of this year?

DUBLINBUSGUY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176305#Comment_122176305

The 703 doesn't go into the hotel grounds anymore.

[Deleted User]

Does aircoach still use bendy bus on car park shuttles?

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177696#Comment_122177696

They may be a few still running, but most have been taken off it now and the MCV EvoRAs have taken over. These are only temporary until the new fully-electric bendy buses arrive in the (near?) future.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176305#Comment_122176305

For several days in a row there was the same vehicle at the same times seemingly without passengers on seemingly not stopping anywhere before returning to the airport which makes it certainly look like it was testing a route change.

It was unclear if it was testing a single route or multiple changes to multiple routes, as it appeared to spend the mornings operating to/from Ballybrack via Dalkey via a very similar route but then the afternoon going from Cherrywood via the N11 and R138 to Dublin Airport and operating in both directions.

I have heard some people say it was a private hire service and not a route test, but the things that would be unusual about that is it was always an early 2014 coach doing the run (very odd to use your oldest coaches on private hires) and for a private hire it seemed to be covering an awful lot of ground multiple times a day backwards and forwards and constantly on the go.

Could be totally wrong but it indeed looked like a route test.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177696#Comment_122177696

There's technically 4 Bendy Citaros that Aircoach still have on their license, the rest have been formally de-licensed and withdrawn. How many are actually in service on your average day though, I couldn't tell you. It could well be that not all four remaining are currently in service.

LF403

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179972#Comment_122179972

Route training has indeed been taking place over the last while. The proposed changes have been met with a considerable amount of resistance from drivers. The changes are due to be pushed through next month pending finalised running boards and a ballot from unionised drivers.

It'll be an alteration + combination of 2 existing routes, an extension of 1 existing route, and the introduction of a new route.

The 702 will be going hourly, no word on extending operating hours however.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187887#Comment_122187887

Sounds like alot of change.

Any further information on what those route changes & new route entail ?

LF403

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188067#Comment_122188067

I'm not 100 percent sure how much detail I can go into about it, but essentially:

700 - exension to Cherrywood via the N11 (the current 702 from Galloping Green onwards, then up the flyover)

702 - Going hourly, via the East Link and the current 703 route from Merrion Rd onwards, Still terminating at Greystones.

703 - Gone

701 - New route serving the city centre alongside the 700, but branching off to serve Merrion Square and Ballsbridge. Terminating at Vincents hospital

Irizar Integrals are on order, but if it goes like the tourismos they'll be driving 241 plates in early 2025. Theres a roumour floating about that the 700 may be getting double deck city buses to alleviate capacity issues.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188297#Comment_122188297

Routes

This really sounds in part as a return to something similar to what has happened in the past on the network, since originally the Ballsbridge route (which had the 701 designation but it was never used) ran alongside the 700, before the 701 was merged into the 702 and then later the 703, which first went via the East Link

Are there any areas being unserved going foward that currently are? The route tests that I have seen didn't seem to involve some of the parts of the 700 route around the current stops in Sandyford or Leopardstown or Killiney, but maybe they were not testing those parts or were doing so on other runs that I didn't see.

Vehicles

Putting higher spec double deckers like they have on the Stansted Airlink in the UK on the 700 during a driver shortage when they are leaving passengers behind on a regular basis and couldn't achieve a consistent frequency they wanted because of a lack of drivers on the 700 is a very sensible move in terms of yields, customer satisfaction and circumventing the driver shortage and one I've been advocating on here for the last 12-18 months, without directly coming out and saying it..

This should allow them to undercut Dublin Express on price a little bit as well as they will be able to pitch their service between a premium coach service (on the corridor where they have been seriously outmanoeuvred commercially by DX) and a normal city bus service, basically the same kind of way that Dublin Bus did with Airlink.

In terms of the Irizar vehicles, do we know what kind of spec they are going to go for? When I heard about them buying Tourismos I was really looking forward to them entering service, but the interior of them meant for me they were disappointing as they were even more high density than the Panthers. A shame because the Tourismo is a much better coach overall, but has been let down by poor spec choices.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188297#Comment_122188297

Thanks, my first thought on the 700 when I saw your first post would be the extension to cherrywood might make sense. Also gives higher frequency along the entire N11.

As for the 702, the eastlink can be a bit of a bottle neck, the old 702 routing used to take it over Sandymount and east link before it was switched to it's current route through Ballsbridge and up the quays to the 3arena.

The 702 running time will be a fair bit longer now as well if it's taking in the 703 before heading to Shankill to join back up to it's existing routing

LF403

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188475#Comment_122188475

In terms of areas losing service, the only stops not being served anymore will be: Grand Canal - Cardiff Lane, Loughlinstown Flyover (The hospital is becoming the only L'town stop) and Killiney Castle. The 700 route is staying as-is, just being extended. Route tests don't require that existing part of the route to be shown to drivers as they're already doing it.

The double decks in question will be First UK spec, if the roumours are true the vehicles will be at most 5 years old. Some First ops in the UK are in age-limited areas, and will be refreshing their fleets soon. Aircoach may take some of these vehicles instead of them being sold off.

No word yet on the exact spec chosen, though they've been bitten badly by the Tourismo spec. Hopefully they learn from that mistake and go with a more adequite setup, especially for luggage loads on Cork. Triaxles will not be coming back to the fleet any time soon.

LF403

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188513#Comment_122188513

Overall the running times will be longer, timetables will be changed to factor in peak/off peak times and all stops will get a 1:30 dwell time

Some of the running boards (currently) are complete fiction, which doesn't help with the service running on-time. A good example is Leopardstown, timetabled to take 50 minutes - not a chance

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188660#Comment_122188660

How is the 700 to work from it's current terminus, down Leopardstown road and right onto the N11 to Foxrock ?

Will add on at a rough guess 15 mins maybe to the run time

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188684#Comment_122188684

Yeah that run time would never work.

Likewise the 702 often gets held up 30 mins+ running through Bray in the peak times

Thanks for the info in your posts, very helpful

According to the Taptalk forum, the Tourismos are no longer being used on the intercity routes due to luggage limitations. Looking at Bustimes.org it is confirmed, only Panthers being used on the Cork route the past few days!

What a mess, I honestly don't know how they could make such a mistake!

I wonder will the Irizar's be heading to the Cork and Belfast routes first, hopefully the spec will fix the issues on these routes.

Triaxles will not be coming back to the fleet any time soon.

Understandable for the local Dublin routes, but I think a mistake for the intercity routes.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188660#Comment_122188660

I just didn't know if they would be doing timing runs as part of it as I did hear there would be a full retiming or the routes as you have outlined because as you said the running boards are not great.

For the double decks, I'd hope they would not be basic spec ones and instead they would have a fairly premium interior, they are in a tough marketplace on the 700 and it's vital that they get this decision right. If they do they could do very well, but if they go too basic it will just emphasise the gap between them and DX even more.

Something like this would be ideal

https://busandtrainuser.com/2020/02/20/turned-off-by-turned-off-touch-points-in-essex/

As soon as I saw the Tourismo spec that Aircoach had ordered it was such a disappointment. going for a 12.3m, cramming in 53 seats, a toilet and a full size wheelchair lift, destroyed the luggage capacity and the onboard environment which became very high density. If they really wanted that kind of spec and seat numbers it was kind of vital that they ordered the 13m version which is also a two axle version. They should have also not cheapened out on the curtains and also went for the higher spec seats that allowed USB port installations in them, not the ones on the ceiling.

Sad that they are not going for triaxles, I don't think they should go for many of them as they got burnt before, but we're in a different operating environment now Aircoach used to be a premium operator with spacious interiors that seems to have been transformed into a budget cram them in operator. Since the first Panthers were delivered, each new vehicle specification seems to further downgrade the experience and the Panthers themselves were a significant downgrade on what came before.

I guess we will see where the new management team will take the operation as they certainly seem to be due to ring the changes in the near future. Can't help thinking that they really could do with a strong, experienced figure in the Irish market with excellent commercial acumen to lead them though which they are solely lacking as they've been commercially lacking for a considerable time now and DX have taken full advantage of that.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188711#Comment_122188711

Some common sense at last on the Tourismos.

It doesn't speak an awful lot about the people who signed them off though, but we've had the conversation about the company, it's recent senior management hires and their lack of experience in industry and in Ireland and the differences between bus and coach services plenty of times before. You think a professional is expensive, you wait until you try an amateur, etc.

Lets be fair though, it seems that there will be a fair amount of changes between now and the end of the year, so hopefully they are able to turn it around. The business has a lot of potential and if it's run in the right way and the commercial team up their game and make the right decisions it's not a total lost cause. But they HAVE to get it right this time or it really will be time for First to sell-up to someone who will run it better.

LF403

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188698#Comment_122188698

The 700 will run as normal to the Clayton in Leopardstown, then down Brewery Rd and the N11.
from what I've heard they're adding about 20 minutes to the run time, and probably a bit more at peak times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188711#Comment_122188711

In terms of Triaxles, the reasoning I've come across from a few people is that they're not coming back becuase they're less fuel efficient.

The irizars will be heading on Cork and Belfast/Derry first. Possibly alongside some of the toilet equipped Panthers that came off Galway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188787#Comment_122188787

The double deck spec remains to be seen, it'll be whatever First have I'd assume. I doubt Aircoach will spend the money to refit the interiors with a more premium arrangement.

The customer care team is indeed moving, partially due to issues surrounding customers not being able to understand the NI accent.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189017#Comment_122189017

At the end of the day it is up to Aircoach if they want to try and complete with others or just put the same mediocre effort as over the past few years which has seen their position erode on the Dublin Airport to Dublin City corridor, the Dublin to Cork and Dublin to Belfast corridor. They've been schooled by far more commercially savvy competitors who are willing to put the hard yards in and be aggressive in the marketplace whilst Aircoach has been cent wise and Euro foolish for a considerable length of time.

Considering the large amount wasted on the Galway/Derry corridors and the Mercs, nothing more would underline the poor management of the company recently than skimping on the comparatively small costs of converting the 700. They need to make it an attractive proposition that offers something over and above the experience that you can get on the PSO network for it to succeed if they are going to be charging a price that is a fair bit higher.

On the subject of triaxles, you can't just look at it in terms of fuel. You need to look at it that it allows you to carry extra passengers per coach, which is helpful during a driver shortage and potentially provide a better onboard experience. What we have now is a dogs dinner of a spec, where Aircoach have gone from a 13.4m triaxle Jonckheere JHV with 53 seats to a 12.3m Tourismo with 55 seats which the marketing teams at Dublin Express and GoBus have spent the last 12-18 months exploiting by shouting from the rooftops how they are running ultra premium, spacious coaches and have been busy taking market share from Aircoach, who once upon a time, were known as the most premium operator out there.

As someone who has worked in a company where the customer care team has been outsourced to the UK, let me tell you this. It doesn't work from anything else other then a cost point of view. You lose the local knowledge, which is important when you are dealing with tourists and people who are travelling to the airport. Having that local knowledge is one of very few areas where Aircoach has been superior to DX over the last year or two. What you end up getting is people sending replies based on their knowledge of the UK which don't really apply to Ireland but they don't know the differences between the country. I am sure that the cost savings involved in this will be significant and are the key driving factor of doing so, however the company wants to spin it.