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ESB did not upgrade to 100A fuse

...Ghost...

Hi all. hoping someone here can help.

I got solar installed in March. I had my tails upgraded to 25sq and my CU replaced as part of the work. For export, I needed a smart meter. The existing fuse in the meter box was a 60/80A. I asked ESBN for a smart meter and also asked if it was possible to connect the tails and upgrade to a 100A fuse on the same visit to save everyone time and hassle. It was an ordeal getting everything done, but suffice to say the ESB messed up the appointment time and I couldn't be there. My OH had to leave work early to accommodate access, as my meter is inside the hallway.

Anyway, I left a note in the meter box with the 3 jobs to be done. Tails connected, Smart Meter installed, 100A fuse upgrade. The technician said the fuse upgrade wasn't on the job list and that I could only have an 80A fuse. He said a 100A wouldn't fit. I was under the impression that the fuses were physically the same size, or am I wrong?

I have emailed ESBN about this, asking for the work to be completed. The entire reason for getting the tails upgraded and mostly why I upgraded the CU, was to allow for a fuse upgrade. Here is a pic of my meter cabinet below. Is there something I am missing? The only thing I can think of is the cut out fuse on the right, which I think is 80A. Maybe that needs to be changed to 100A before the main fuse can be done? Any help on this appreciated.

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unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132490#Comment_122132490

So who installed the 80A fuse in your CU? Was it ESBN? As @KCross said, presuming your ESBN fuse is also at least 80A, that is what you have access too. So basically a nearly free upgrade from a 8kVA to a 16kVA MIC 😁

I would stay a good few amps below this so not to risk blowing the ESBN side fuse

In other words: happy days

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132536#Comment_122132536

The rating at the bottom right of meter box is 80A.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132562#Comment_122132562

OK, definitely talk to your electrician then.

ESBn are saying you have an 8kVA connection but you now appear to have the ability to pull 16kVA.

The ESB cable from the pole to the meter box needs to be able to handle that doubling of load. You need to get input from your electrician here based on what ESBn have just told you.

slave1

Have you ever had an electric shower in use? 8kVa is terribly low

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132555#Comment_122132555

My electrician installed 80A inside the CU and 80A cut off I’m the meter box.

The ESBN fuse I have had for the past 2 years was a 60/80A….so a 60A but the ESB tech who installed it says they are good up to 80A.

Now with the upgraded tails, the ESB tech told me he could not put a 100A fuse in, but would put the 80A fuse in.

I just need to get the MIC upgraded to what I had assumed it was already….12kVa

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132584#Comment_122132584

Very dodgy decision from your electrician. If you are on a 12kVA MIC, your CU fuse should be 63A. I am not sure how low it would have to be for an 8kVA MIC. If you ever have a claim / fire, this will emerge and you could have trouble with your insurer.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132579#Comment_122132579

Yeah, since forever. 9kW, though it seems to only ever draw 7kW at max. The shower is on a priority switch with the EV charger though.

graememk

My house was originally on 8kVA from when it was built, Screw in fuses, 10mm2 main cable.

I think I could have got it to 12 without the big fee, (just the tails upgrade) but with the farmyard 16 was recommended.

If you are on a 12kVa now, that main MCB beside the meter should be 63amp.

12kVA - 80 amp ESBN fuse, 63 amp consumer MCB(or fuse)
16kVA - 100 amp ESBN fuse, 80 amp consumer MCB(or fuse)
20kVA - 120 amp ESBN fuse, 100 amp consumer MCB(or fuse)
I think you can go to 29!

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132619#Comment_122132619

in fairness to the electrician, he set it up for the tails to be connected by ESBN and the ESB fuse to be 100A. I’ll be applying to have the MIC upgraded to 12kVa. Will apply today. I might chance my arm and see if they are running a new line anyway, would I still be charged the full whack for a 16kVa connection.

...Ghost...

I’ll take good quality snaps of everything later just to be clear on the current (no pun intended) setup. Then I’ll know what needs to be done. I left all this to the professionals and it would still seem that mistakes were made. Typical. 😡

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132918#Comment_122132918

With an 80A CU fuse, you will need to be on a 16kVA MIC for it to be legit (and obviously all other cabling / fuses to be according to the regs)

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132977#Comment_122132977

What mistakes were made? Your spark did what you asked, it was you that never applied for or paid the fee for the enhanced supply. As far as I can tell your spark has done exactly what's required for a 16kva supply. I would've installed a 100 amp isolator in board instead of an 80 but others may disagree.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132342#Comment_122132342

There are KM and KM of lines that need to be done though.

I'm 5KM from Dublin City Centre and we (and everyone nearby) is on overhead supply.

I happen to have 3-phase but everything is screw in fuses and under powered tails, earths etc.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132918#Comment_122132918

Unlikely you'll need a cable increase to 16, but whoever comes out will need to see what's below that ESBN fuse. (The cable that is).

When I got it done it was about 1300 ish and no changes was needed on my end.

They did change a pole down the road from me, as it was needed to be changed once it was spotted.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133119#Comment_122133119

Unless I am misunderstanding, because I only have an 8kVA MIC, the main ESB fuse should have been left at 60A. At my request and through my own misunderstanding of what was required on the ESB side, the ESB technician installed an 80A main fuse. They are the experts, not me. I'll be happy enough with 80A, but I thought a 12kVa MIC was sufficient for that.

I wasn't blaming the electrician I hired via the Solar installers and made that clear in my post above. I think they did a great job with the exception of not installing an isolator on the tails.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133371#Comment_122133371

I have put in the application for the 12kVa supply.

Do they take bribes at the door? 😂

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133196#Comment_122133196

Oh I'm not making light of the work to be done, it is huge. But ESBN saw it all coming and should have gone all out upgrading everything from about 10 years ago. And it doesn't cost them a cent, whatever the total costs are, with a nice margin for their profit, will be paid for by the end users.

5km from the city centre and your whole area is still on overhead supply? That is mad though. Do you mind me asking whereabouts in Dublin that is? Do you suffer regular power cuts in storms and all that?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133393#Comment_122133393

Generally the supply cable can take it, it's a buried cable, you'll not over load it.

Your tails are now 25mm², and everything is at a high standard. There's no "risk" at your end anyway.

Isolator on the main tails is a ESBN thing not your installer, not sure if you have the space for it anyway!

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133393#Comment_122133393

I wouldn't worry about that, he wouldn't have put in an 80 amp fuse if the cable wasn't suitable (You would hope so anyway). If you can be there when they do the upgrade to 12kva, ask if they can fit a 100 amp fuse. Will probably say no but you never know.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133466#Comment_122133466

When I was in college only a few years back, one of my modules covered this. The ESB are decades behind where they should be. The main theory is complacency stopped them carrying out future proofing upgrades in the early 90s and they were behind by end of that decade as a result.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133506#Comment_122133506

That's good to know. I'll be getting the electrician to call out later in the year anyway for when I am upgrading my shed electrics. I'll be adding a mini CU out there. Plan is to run about 4kW of solar through it and back to the main CU. I'll be needing the electrician to get the electrics on that circuit up to scratch for that.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133506#Comment_122133506

I asked this question in the electrics forum and while you will probably get away with it, it doesn't seem a good idea to just "up" the consumer side to 80A while still being on a 12kVA MIC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058340166/upgrade-mic-from-12kva-to-16kva

I would be happy to have the works done like the OP, but not if it isn't 100% legit. Any way we can get this officially confirmed as kosher?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133783#Comment_122133783

I wouldnt have a 80amp Main MCB on an ESB 80 amp fuse. Too little margin for error.

That being said. I have seen a hob 32 amp, MCB trip, Main mcb trip, and ESBN fuse blow when a hob was lifted out and put back in again. (cable somehow moved and the earth sleeved earth snagged inside the terminals creating a dead short)

Put it down to the esbn fuse being older than me. ('81 era, when the meter was moved outside, no reason for anyone to change it since) Couldnt even open the fuse carrier to replace it.

unkel

@graememk - "I wouldnt have a 80amp Main MCB on an ESB 80 amp fuse. Too little margin for error. "

But that is exactly what the OP has now?

I wouldn't worry about the margin for error if you have the myenergi hardware. You could just set the max draw to 75A or whatever to be safe. Technically / hardware wise it all seems fine.

I AM worried about the legalities and insurance implications of this setup.

idc

My house was marked as 8kVA and CU has 64A Main MCB and I can only assume it was a 60A ESB fuse where it mentions 60/80. I have since upgraded to 12kVA so assume I now have the 80A ESB fuse but no real way of knowing which is inside the fuse holder! Bizarrely a week later another ESBN engineer appeared stating it looked like the first guy hadn't also switched me to a 24h smart meter, glad I was there as already had my day/night smart meter!

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133466#Comment_122133466

Its the same in many areas of Dublin, lots of streets in Terenure, Templeogue, Rathfarnham, Rathmines are like this.
Total PITA when getting deliveries or doing renovations, I had to get a temporary pole installed to divert the line away from the house.

mp3guy

FWIW page 4 here has the guidelines for supply sizes: https://safeelectric.ie/contractors/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/July-2019-Newsletter-Final.pdf

tom1ie

AFAIR the 100A fuse cut out holder is physically larger than the 63/80A fuse cut out holder as the 100A fuse is physically larger.
Of course as others have said here it depends on the wires coming in to the house and what size they are if they can supply the load you are looking for.

Are you fed from OHL or an underground cable?

tom1ie

Plenty of areas within 5km from the CC that are OHL and there’s a good reason for this.
If you put everything underground you basically create capacitive issues on the network which means you need larger CCC to combat the capacitance.
OHL have far less capacitance issues.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184680#Comment_122184680

You can get a 100amp fuse that fits the 60/80 holder, I upgraded to 16kVA and they didn't need to change the fuse carrier/DNO head.

As for over head lines, I'm in the north west, and recently the only major outage was that big storm but I'd say if we get another storm like that it won't be as bad, it's taken out anything dodgy 😂.

Must be nearly 15-20 yrs ago, the way the years now roll around, but ESBN upgraded a lot of the poles/wires in my area (I remember a lot of scheduled outages, and the old poles were left at the edge of the fields (they didn't have to take them away, make great strainer posts 😂). Before that power cuts were much more frequent.

Suppose in more sheltered areas, the weaker elements can hang on for much longer, and when a storm arrives, a lot fails.

Sligobuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134385#Comment_122134385

Never assume anything when it comes to the ESB.

I always assumed my parents house had a 12kVA supply given it had a 64A fuse in the CU. When I checked into it I discovered it was only an 8kVA supply. The ESB fuse holder was also marked 60/80A so I also assumed there was a 60A fuse in there!

Turns out when I got the supply upgraded last year to a 17kVA supply I was there for the upgrade and seen that there was only a 40A fuse in the 60/80A ESB fuse holder.

The house had been running for over 20 years with a 9kW electric shower, electric kettle, electric toaster and electric oven grill running most mornings, so these main fuses can take much more than they are rated for!

To add insult to injury the ESB installed an 80A fuse in their holder on the day of the changeover to 17kVA.