Maybe the generational auroras of red were a bad omen for the russians
The situation in Georgia is rapidly degenerating. Opposition politicians and human rights activists are being harassed by thugs on behalf of the pro-Russian Georgian Dream party.
I think myself the French loov a good scrap. The Ger's have a lousy record in that regard.
a HIMARs a day keeps the neo fascist urges away
This should be pasted on every lamppost in Ireland.
Pfff…
if russia take over it will go from intimidation/vandalism/beatings to executions.
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say the war is over next year and the Ukrainian men who left Ukraine and didnt have a valid reason for leaving, if they return to Ukraine, what do you think their punishment will be?
‘now that youhave asked the question will you kindly give us , say, six ‘punishments’ that you think appropriate
I would not dare judge any of them. This is a tragedy for all Ukrainians.
It might depend on whether they are going to be able to identify them.
In the US, failing to even register for the draft is theoretically subject to five years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine, though the last time anyone was prosecuted for it was 1986 so it's a theory more than practice. What will happen, though, is you will be barred from consideration for government (to include local government in most states) jobs, and you will not receive a number of possible benefits like student loans or workforce training. These are much easier punishments to implement, and cost nothing. I could see such a thing happening in Ukraine.
Deny them an army pension payment - what else would you suggest?
Prison in my opinion, if the same happened here and I stayed while my neighbour fled the Country and came back once the war is won, I wouldn't be happy.
….
If you stay and either get killed or injured in war, your opinion will not matter afterwards. Victorious nations don't parade their injured, only the men who survive intact get to receive the salutes at the parade. World moves on, there is a shortage of men, the men who avoided conscription return, their labour & skills needed to rebuild the countries infrastructure. They are a much better prospect for marriage than dead or injured men who are soon forgotten. Don't overlook the psychological scars of the men in the trenches, it's not a natural act for men to kill each other. The survivors may get pensions entitlement or government jobs (e.g. US postal service) assuming their nation is victorious, there won't be that much money available for benefits in a poor country with it's infrastructure destroyed. That's assuming your country wins, if you find yourself on the wrong side of the dividing line when everyone has had enough of the war, you are in the worst of both worlds, enemy of the state, no compensation and the probability of being shipped our of your locality as the carpet baggers arrive to claim their booty. Meanwhile, the guys who avoided the war, are getting on with their lives, they will have families to take care of and a new generation to raise.
Not everyone is able to fight a war, that's the reality and I wouldn't be judging anyone for it. Also pretty sure they won't be jailing anytime in such a scenario cause it would be an international scandal IMHO.
That is your view of it all, I have a different view of it. If you are a healthy male from 18 to 60 who fled the war and stroll back in once the real men take care of business, then you are a coward and you let your country down. I know lots of Ukrainians here, one ladies husband stayed to fight, she is here with her child, she has seen him only once since the war started. I dont know how the guys who ran can live with themselves, even if its not in you to take up a gun and fight you can help the army in other ways im sure, no reason to flee. staying and fighting is the right thing to do, in my opinion.
prison shouldnt be off the table at all.
@eightieschewbaccy, scandal? if everyone left the Country then the Ukraine wouldn't exist anymore. its not a harmless thing to do.
They probably get russian passport as that is who will most likely be there when the war is over.
Has the offensive that started yesterday gone so bad for Russians that the conversation today was deliberately steered towards discussing a small number of Ukrainian men under 27 in west?
There seems to be different trains of thought. One is that the Russians were repelled, suffering heavy losses. The other is that they have captured a number of villages and have opened a new front in effect. Think we won't know the full details for a few days.
So. Has anyone else hear about this wild weasel flying style. Its the first time i ever did. Sounds ballsy. Hope the link works as i am using my phone not the desktop https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-pilots-use-wild-weasel-tactics-usaf-invented-vietnam-war-2024-5?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar
A terrible punishment indeed.
If they will want to return. I do not see many young ukrainians ever returning no matter how it all end up. Country infrastructure is crippled not to mention hundreds of thousands pieces of unexploded munition and mines. Vietnam and Cambodia do have problems with this till this very day.
The best jobs and careers should go to those who stayed behind to defend the country.
The families of those who died should be looked after
I’ve read about it in a few places. Wild Weasel started in Vietnam and originally consisted of USAF pilots basically playing “chicken” with North Vietnamese AAA and SAM sites. Basically, a pair of fighters would team up on a known or suspected air defense site, with one jet trying to provoke the site to become active and start firing on the offending jet, thereby giving away its position. At this point, the second aircraft, which had been loitering a fair bit away, would swoop in, engage the air defense site with unguided rockets, cannon fire or conventional bombs, and hopefully take out the site before their partner was turned into a collection of metal scraps raining down over the jungle. I recommend checking out “Every Man a Tiger”, the memoirs of USAF General Chuck Horner, the man behind the air campaign during Desert Storm in ‘91. Horner wrote it together with the late Tom Clancy. A lot of the book covers Horner’s experience during Desert Storm, but it also touches on Wild Weasel and its development, primarily because Horner himself flew Wild Weasel missions during Vietnam.
From what I read in that article you posted, it seems to me like the UkrAF is basically employing variations on the early Wild Weasel tactics, before the AGM-45 “Shrike”, the first anti-radar missile, or even the first jammers had been introduced. I wonder if this is due to the limited number of attack modes and profiles that is available for the AGM-88 HARM under the “improvised” setup that Ukraine is using.
The unexploded ordinance & mines is predominantly in the front-line regions, which is a tiny percentage of what is a very large country. To the best of my knowledge the only infrastructure outside of those areas that has suffered major damage has been the power stations and dams that Russia has deliberately targeted. To say that the infrastructure in the wider country has been "crippled" is a wild exaggeration.
I've been censured here for previously expressing this question. But in brief, I don't think they will return. They are supposed to return as war refugee status is temporary but in practice they'll do their damndest not to and we'll be stuck with them.
Decoy Patriot system attacked
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